A few basic questions

Greetings Folks,
Let me first introduce myself and how I ended up here, then I will shoot the questions I have. I am playing with computers and technology since I was 8, now I am almost 36. This has been passion of mine ever since and very wild journey. First it was a hobby, then it became a job which now pay my bills. I am DevOps engineer with heavy interest in security field. What drives me forward is the curiosity to explore (the limits) of technology. For me this is never ending fun. Engineering is something I really love. Take things apart to see how they work, then assemble them again and in case of a need improve them. Last week my flipper zero arrived so I started digging more and more into rfid and nfc. It’s a nice tool to mess around. So moving forward I am about to grab a proxmark very soon. Here are my use cases. I have my home building entrance using hm4100, I currently operate remote, but my office access system is mix of hm4100, H10301 and some tag which I cannot read with the flipper(therefore I need the proxmark tp dive deeper). Honestly I like the flipper because it allows me to create a library of keys and emulate them on demand. Since I got it, I also got a baggie of t5577 tags to play with and I really like them. I also do have some Mifare 1k to mess around. Inevitably I ended up finding the DT products and forum and I really had a blast. The whole idea of having chips implanted just blows my mind. So far based on my needs I am thinking to get a xMagic L0 and NExT in R0. Later I would explore speak and vivokey. So we’re up to the questions section. Some of my other hobbies include, motor bike riding, firearms shooting, ham radios and airsoft playing. I do not expect any issues honestly for bike riding and firearms handling, but what concerns me is the airsoft. In case the glass implant got impacted from a bb, there is some chance to get shattered. Usually close impacts, do left a nasty bruses. I know the chance to get hit at the same place as the impact is very low but it still exists. Next thing is, I was able to found a “ripper doc”, in order to execute the procedure. I live in Bulgaria, Sofia, so there is not much of a choice. Inc Brothers are up for the task. I went there today to check and one of the guys pulled an empty NeXT box( I was pleasantly surprised). Since I live in Bulgaria and it’s part of EU I would like to ask, is there any seller which sells in EU territory? I am asking because usually if you import from the states or uk, you would pay vat + import tax. VAT is like 21% and import tax may be something like 10-20%… Also I do not like the idea some guy on the customs messing up with the boxes content. If there is none I will just order from KSEC and bite the bullet… Usually dealing with customs is pain in the ass. I do have one more question for the flex line. In case I do have PET scan or MRI with radio active isotope, does this stick to the bio resin of the implant? I know the x series use glass, so they should be fine. Thanks all! I really enjoy this community and ever since I’ve discovered it I spent countless hours reading and also watching Amal videos :slight_smile:
Hack the planet!


See section “Crush testing up to 500N (maxing out the machine)” of this post.


Yes, Digiwell has them at a good price:

…and my experience of them has been with no further VAT/export taxes within the EU.


This is the exact same setup I have.
This is not a choice supportive bias, but I truly belive that is the “best” option to have ( or alternatively swapped positions)

My logic is, Position 0 is the “best” position for a glassie, it is possible to put 2 implants in that position, but it is also easier and safer to put just one.
By putting 2 x 2in1 implants there, You now have 4 implants in the 2 “best” locations.

The 2 HF chips have very good specific use cases, and the LF T5577 is so flexible in its use, you can have any 2 different modes the T5577 is capable of emulating.

you only need a phone and flipper to do pretty much everything with them.

obviously there are other options that may suit orher people better, but yours is a very good option, and I dont think you will regret your choice.


Hey Folks, thanks all! I just ordered a NeXT from the German store. It seems NeXT week I will have a lot of fun. BTW Digiwell a.k.a. Upgraded Humans do not have xMagic in stock unfortunately. Crush testing was a lot of fun to read lol


Okay Folks, few more things
So it seems I wont have both NeXT and xMagic implanted at the same time :frowning: Unfortunately xMagic is still not in stock in DigiWell. On the other hand the NeXT will be here Monday, and my plan is to go and get it installed.
Here comes the questions.
I am reading the professional guide, because I would like to discuss with the piercer who’s going to do the implantation.
So first thing, suggestion is to implant parallel but slightly off center from the metacarpal bone of the index finger because the implant migrates ~5mm towards the incision site. I guess this is a valid argument and must be calculated when drawing the T ? Also the top of the T should be on top of the bone or at it’s side facing the thumb ?
Second question. How long should be the leg of the T? 5mm, 7mm ? I guess 5 is the bare minimum distance from index metacarpal ?
I was willing to get both implanted at the same time so the guy can measure and draw, then execute. Now it seems I would just need to remember what measurements we decided to go with and then replicate when xMagic arrives.
The last thing is - I still cannot decided if I should do xMagic L0 and NExT in R0 or reverse. My argument to go L0 for the xmagic was because it’s slightly bigger implant.
Please lmk. Thanks a lot!

I understand your excitement, but I really think you should wait and get them done both at the same time for a number of reasons.

  • One appointment
  • One time travel - time,fuel, parking etc
  • Your installer MIGHT give you a discount for doing both at the same time, as there is only one sterile field to set up, and that takes far longer than the actual install, and again, their time is only used for one appointment.
  • One period of healing ∴ half the time , rather than one now and heal for 2 weeks then another 2 weeks to heal for the other one.

if you have a specific use case, use this to make your decision.

The example I have given before is, if you will be using your implant to open a parking garage / gate etc. you would reach out of that side window with that implant.

or alternatively swapped positions

If you dont have a specific use, I would actually suggest xMagic on the right (if you’re right handed, 90% chance I’m correct)

You would likely present your xMagic to more and varied readers with your right hand because of your coordination.
Where as, the NExT you would likely use for business cards for others to read and left hand is fine for that, or, you might have urls etc on the NExT, and with your phone “normally” in your right hand, it is easier to read your left…

Thats my 2 cents, do with it as you will


Much appreciated @Pilgrimsmaster
The studio is in the same town where I live and it’s like 30 mins away from my place. My consideration is if I go in diff days/weeks, could the guy place them relatively the same( more or less)
Okay so what about the rest of the questions I have about the positioning of the chip under the skin. Would you be able to answer those ? ( actually this is an open question, whoever have more info, please assist.)

Alright, next came this morning. After a visit to my ripper doc, it was successfully installed.




Both sides of the chip are reading fine. I will give it few days before attempting to write, but as overall installation went very smoothly


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Hey Folks, instead of creating a new topic I’ve decided just to bump this one.
So far, so good. NeXT in L0 got fully healed, and xMagic in R0 is healing just fine, despite some unfortunate events around the install. So moving forward, I am looking for a Vivokey Apex. Since there is no injectable apex yet, I was looking to get the only available option - the flex. Honestly I prefer glass implants instead of polymers. I was planning to go to Germany to get the implant, but the financial aspect becomes hairy. 400 euros for the implant, plain tickets are around 200-400 euros, plus install I guess 100-150 euros, plus expenses for uber, and some other small stuff, the bill becomes kinda big. Now the upcoming questions. I spent last few days digging around and I would like to recap. So the apex flex comes sterilised but the needle is not. Needle must be autoclaved before the install. My question here is, when you stick the needle to make the channel under skin and then retract it, how do you push the implant in? I red that using forceps is not recommended because it ruins the implant coating. Also based on some math the pocket is pretty deep. Bevel down when installing means the bevel should be like doing a regular injection, right? I was not able to find an install doc for flex implants. I may try my piercer but I need to clarify those things before that. Also, how much the flex impants migrate compared to x series ? Thanks a lot.

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You should be able to slide it in with your fingers (gloves!). You can maybe push it but with a blunt tool nothing with sharp edges obviously (hence why no forceps).

That really depends on you and the install but based on my experience , much less or not at all. They are big and less “aerodynamic” so it makes sense. Round ones tend to spin around though.

You should be able to find many install videos in the Install video thread.


Sterile gloves! Touching the implant to get it under your skin with unsterile tools or gloves is increasing the risk of infectioniom quite a lot. A professional is absolutely our recommendation. Even putting on sterile gloves without contaminating them is a challenge and requires training.


I hope that helps

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I airsoft and have been shot on the implant in my left hand numerous times with no ill effect and we play in an indoor range with no rules on engagement distance so its always close. It hurts like hell but no ill effects or damage to the implant


Cool, thanks all. So just to make sure I fully understood, implant can be pushed till the end of the pocket just with hands(in sterile gloves)? Ain’t this risking implant to be bend or there is no such risk? Also what place would you recommend for the install? I was thinking about right hand just above the wrist like so

Copy and pasted from dt product page

Incise skin using a 4g (5mm diameter) piercing needle, bevel side down
Carefully insert the needle to a depth of at least 35mm (video)[video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdEWCpd1ls)
Be sure to lift the skin ahead of the needle’s point as you insert it
Slide flex device under skin with sterile gloves – no forceps or tools
Achieve complete hemostasis before applying bandaging
Use re-enforced butterfly bandage or dermal strips to pull wound closed
Apply transparent film (tegaderm) dressing overtop the dermal strips
While hemostasis is maintained, do not remove bandaging for 7-10 days
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