Any problems with this install?

WARNING: Video is of syringe installation - not for people who don’t like needles.

So I just self installed my first implant and it was actually harder than I expected. I’ve attached a video of the install and had a couple of questions:

I was trying to go as shallow as possible but it still looked like it installed pretty deep. Do you think it installed close enough to the surface?

It was really hard to advance the needle further, like REALLY hard, I was worried that with the amount of pressure that if it suddenly advanced I’d shoot straight through the outside of my hand. As a I pushed the plunger the needle seemed to withdraw slightly despite me trying to keep it in place. Do you think the chip has installed too close to the wound opening? I was trying to get it further in so that if it migrated towards the opening during healing it wouldn’t come out.

Before anyone worries about sterility of the procedure I scrubbed up and sanitised both hands before starting and know I touched the wound during install but am OK with that.

Note for next time, that needle is big and not easy to get in without significant traction. I didn’t plan on getting my daughter to hold traction but it was the only way to advance that beast.

I think your angle looked Good, however as you suggested, I also don’t think you advanced the needle as far as you probably should have, meaning, the implant may have taken a dive downward as you depressed the plunger.
Proper healing normally takes around 2 weeks, so you won’t really know how good the placement is until after that.

You could tape down a match, cotton bud etc, between the opening and the implant.


Most people would recommend Bevel down, rather than up, or if possible, bevel down until penetration has occured than rotate to bevel up for control.

The good news is, It’s in!
I’ve seen worse!

Now we wait.
Just keep it clean and be patient whilst you wait for it to heal.

I don’t recognise that syringe? What flavour implant is that, and where did you get it?

Thanks for the feedback. It’s an iamrobot X3, purely because I’m impatient and the DT XM1 isn’t in stock.

The instructions said bevel down but I stick needles in people all day for a living and we always go bevel up so I guess I just went with what I know.

It surprised me with how hard it was to advance it as I would have liked to get it in much further, it must be the gauge because IV’s are heaps easier.

The good news is it reads great and I’ve written to it already. Fingers crossed to see how it goes on the Gallagher readers at work tomorrow, otherwise I’ll have to get a Flex.

Now to order a DT xEM whilst I wait for my PM3 to arrive.

Yep. IV hypodermic needles are small enough they part the skin but increase the size and it starts acting like a shovel and collecting skin inside the hollow as you go.

Yep. The idea is that the needle go in fairly deep and makes a pocket, then you retract the needle 12mm to leave a space for the implant to be ejected into… otherwise the device is forced to make its own way under the skin and well, it goes wherever it wants if left to make its own way.

Ah, thats why I didnt recognise it.

I dont know much about their products, so I can’t comment, It sounds like it is working for you.
Just beware, It may stop reading/writing as the fluid fills the area, but should come back after a while.

IV needles being much smaller, but, as I said, Its in now, hopefully a skin flap hasn’t been pushed in ( not a major, just not as small of a scar )

Yeah, Lube can certainly help, and I imagine you used an alcohol prep of some sort which would have dried the skin and provided resistance…

That will depend on the how the readers are set-up

I guess you did your homework and are aware that Gallagher make LF readers and Multiclass readers, So if yours is HF, your Mifare Classic may well work, but I also know Gallagher often use DESFire EV2.

Did you do a TagInfo scan of your work card?

If your system is Multiclass and the LF reader is operationg, you should be able to use an xEM in the system, if it is enrolled.

Sing out if you need a hand to setup your PM3 , there are a couple of guides that we can direct you to.

Thanks @amal, the plan was always to go past the spot I had marked and then withdraw a bit before injecting but I just couldn’t advance any further without crazy pressure.

Maybe I was just not going hard enough because it was my first install but I was concerned it was going to suddenly give and push through the other side.


Yep, the work ID card is a Mifare Classic with all keys set to factory and the system doesn’t care about the UID, only the card info in sector 15. Not bad security for a large government organisation.

I already cloned my ID card to a Magic S50 key fob so there shouldn’t be any problems at that end. I’m just not sure how the little chip will go with the T10 readers as you already let me know that the XM1 doesn’t work with them. If it doesn’t work I’ll just use the chip for a Tasker function in my phone and buy a Flex chip from DT.

I’m just waiting for the PM3 to arrive so I can make sure I can clone the LF card I need successfully and as soon as that is confirmed I’ll get an xEM.

It seems to be the start of a Dangerous hobby, I really hope a decent payment chip becomes available in Australia soon.

Oh, no no, apologies if I said/implied that.

If your system currently works with Mifare Classic, an xM1 should work and likewise your IAR version.
I cant guarantee that, but I have tested an xEM (NExT) on a Gallagher T10 and it worked reliably everytime.
Swiping down the face of the reader.

Hopefully an HF equivalent works equally well

Good luck for tomorrow


My apologies, it wasn’t you it was a post in the chip compatability thread that mentioned the xM1 not working with the Gallagher T10 readers.

I’ll find out tomorrow.

Then it would have been me…
:thinking: as it hadn’t been tested, it should have been blank…not a NO.

I will wait until your testing tomorrow to check it out and change it if it needs to

Heh. makes me curious. How many folks in this forum are in fact pokeyphobes

I was until my 3rd install lol


I am…
4 real…

i dont like needles. the smaller the worse.
Big ones dont scare me at all…

I think this may actually have been from the lack of lubrication on the IAR injection assembly. We lubricate our needles (as one should) so once you’re past the bevel they slide in without issue. The problem with unlubricated steel is that if you have properly cleaned your skin with an alcohol based prep of some kind, all of the natural oils will have been removed, and sliding unlubricated steel against skin stripped bare like that is about as effective as a fly dancing a jig on flypaper. I see in the video that quite a lot of surface area of the needle is in direct contact with your skin while you’re attempting to push it in. Lubrication is likely the issue.

Also, a comment about self-installs, particularly using the clip method. The tenting of the skin is insufficient and as noted, quite a lot of the needle surface makes contact with skin. Cleaning skin with antiseptic is not the same as clinically sterilizing the injector assembly. You’re install is only as clean as your dirtiest component, and in this case (like many others) the perfectly sterilized needle is getting contaminated by contact with large parts of the surrounding skin, and then pushed directly into the incision. Just be aware that cleaning the incision site and all the skin around it VERY WELL is paramount. Of course, the better you clean the surrounding skin, the “stickier” an unlubricated needle will be… so you must have cleaned pretty well with a lot of scrubbing and antiseptic.



How did it go?

Haha, I was really excited to go to work to try it and then ended up having to take the day off as my daughter got gastro (she’s fine).

I’m on a day off tomorrow but might swing past just to try it, otherwise it will be on Thursday. I’ll let you know how I go.

It reads great with my phone if I take the case off so I’m ever hopeful.

1 Like


:frowning::sob: Unfortunately a no go with the Gallagher T10 readers. I can get it to work with the T20 readers but nothing on the T10.

I’ll keep trying as the swelling goes down but I’m thinking if I can get consistent reads with the T20 and on my phone through the case then it is unlikely.

Looks like a FlexM1 is the next step. I’m going to get a NExT anyway as I want the LF side. Is there anyway I can get the HF side to work with Gallagher? The current system uses MF classic and desfires and doesn’t care about the UID only the card details written to sector 15.

It is still a fresh install.

another week and a half may make a difference. (the power output may be less than the T20 :man_shrugging: )

Did you try the xFD on the reader? does it light up at all? Does it light up as bright or brighter than the T20 reader


I never tested an NTAG216, so I cant answer that for you I’m afraid

So it looks like it could be the readers, which is what the other member I spoke with had a problem with.

I’ll give it time for the swelling to go down but today I was able to get it to work every time on some readers and others I couldn’t get it to work at all.