Body Augmentation / Reduction Discussion

[Coma]

@ncc74656

Gonna come off as aggressive here, so take this as intended and not as it sounds - too late/tired to come at this gently/carefully.

I think I completely understand that - it’s a topic that is of really great importance to you, and I guess you had to answer all those questions, fight all those prejudices and have all that arguments many, many times before. If a matter of such importance has to be explained again and again (to different people, of course, but always facing the same or at least similar problems), and people just don’t seem to get it, that’s a kinda painful feeling. Though I’m in no ways trans or anything similar, I got other topics where this happens, and I fully understand that there is a time where you can simply no longer be gentle about it.
Still, I think this is a very open-minded community, so I assume first that nothing of the things anyone here said were said to harm someone but rather out of ignorance. Which is a problem, but also a chance as well - for you are here and able to inform others, and even if it might be tiring to do so again and again, it can and will help, for people here are open to hear what you got to say.

@ncc74656

So while I wholly agree that some reeking junkie on the subway is repulsive and “got themselves there,” unfortunately we actually don’t know what led them here, and they deserve the chance to recover from that. Everyone does.

Totally. I always get kinda nervous when people say that “it’s their own fault, so we don’t have to help”. This might be economically correct, but it is so incredibly wrong ethically.

@ncc74656

Maybe society shouldn’t be the sole arbiter, but instead basic morality and a common sense of the best for everyone should instead guide society?

Should be that way, of course - but how would you try to achieve that? And there is a long and difficult discussion about what the “best for everyone” actually is - different people will give very different answers to that. I mean, we have the declaration of human rights, and it is disregarded in many parts of the world…
I’d say the “best for everyone” would be a world with freedom of speech, gender, religion, sexuality, body autonomy and everything else as long as no unwilling person gets harmed (and I mean, harmed - not “put in discomfort for seeing things he doesn’t like”) - at this point already, many religious and conservative people would stongly contradict. And, other side of the medal, a world where we take care of humans, other animals and the nature as a whole, not exploiting everything around us… But I have honestly no freakin’ idea on how to achieve that world, given the very nature of human beings.

@ncc74656

This boils down to the societal norms and pressures put upon someone. In any free society where this was not considered a bog standard part of being a woman, essentially no woman would “want” this to happen (barring literally a couple in the same boat as the wannabe amputees)

Thanks for formulating better what I tried to say - of course, there are girls who “want” this to be done to them, who say yes to this procedure, but that can’t be seen as informed or free consent at all.