Can't detect the 125KHz chip in my NExT implant

@Eriequiet I just took my “Blue Cloner” apart and played with the antenna. When I place the antenna directly onto the skin above my implant it can detect the T5577. I also can read my batch card from work, but I’m a little skittish to write to my implant with that “Blue Cloner”.

@Pilgrimsmaster Hey good idea with the diagnostic card, I’m going to give it a shot in the morning.

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Skittish is good,

Watch the video Amal posted about it

Once you know you are getting a good read, then you can try writing

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@Eriequiet gave you so great links with good info, tips & tricks.

The other side to it, and what may be causing you some trepidation; the Blue cloner forcibly writes a password onto the chip.
If you only want to write to that chip with the blue cloner, then it doesn’t really matter, If you ever want to write outside of EM,HID, AWID you will need a Proxmark to remove the password and write whatever else you wanted to.
So it is not a major issue, But just something you need to be aware of.

Today I tried the diagnostic card on the gate at work and I have to say I’m confused. The HF-LED did light up even the cards must be LF cards. I can read them with the “Blue Cloner” and not with the “KBR1 RFID Reader”, which makes me assume the cards are 125KHz.
I guess I need to investigate a little deeper into this.

Wouldn’t be a surprise to have a dual frequency reader with lf card most companies install them to either future proof :zipper_mouth_face: or upgrade existing infrastructure but don’t issue new tags to current employees just to new staff

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Hi all,
I actually came to the forum today with the same sort of issue. I’ll just add my comments here rather than creating a new thread. I’ve had the xEM for about 5 years and use it daily. A few weeks ago I had a NeXT installed and I have to say the read range on the T5577 is abysmal compared to the xEM. I thought originally that it was just the swelling/bruising/edema from the installation that was decreasing read range, but my hand is just about back to normal and the injection site is almost 100% healed. I still struggled to get a read and write with my blue cloner. I also picked up the lock below for use on my gym locker and I’ve REALLY got to fidget with orientation/placement with the antenna touching my hand to get a read and open. No chance I’ll get a scan through a wooden door. I guess at this point I’ll play with the chipset on the lock a bit and try to over-drive the antenna, but I wondered if anyone else has the xEM and the NeXT and has experienced this variance in chip activation within the same antenna/field?

Edit: Forgot to add the lock link.

I think you’re right the reading range of the T5577 in the NExT implant really sucks. I even think the range for the NTAG216 is limited too. That’s probably the price you have to pay if you put two chips in a container which is designed for one.

Any swelling/bruising/fluids are going to affect read range.
Also the depth, the location, orientation are all going to affect your results.

Let’s wait until it IS 100% before making a comparison.

Compared to a full-sized card, compared to a fob, compared to a flex implant???
Yeah, sure…But
I think we might need to take a step back and recalibrate our expectations.

What you guys are complaining about are very small, glass and resin encapsulated chips with ferrite rods, and a wound antennas, and you are expecting the same /similar results as a full sized card/fob.

It’s all about physics my friends

If you want the range and performance it sounds like you expect, you need to look at getting a FlexEM, a FlexMT, a FlexMN …These are larger and flatter antennas, with a design more closely related to couple with a flat reader antenna.

If you were to open up a fob or key card, you will see the same antenna design
This fob is pretty much the Flex EM

This card is pretty much the equivalent version of the NExT
Circle = LF T5577 Rectangle = HF NT216

If range is what you want, get a Flex!

Same answer goes for above.
If anything, it should be the other way around. The LF should have slightly better range, but we are talking millimeters :straight_ruler:

Indeed, however you could consider routing out the back of the door and countersink your lock, or get a Flex…

Do you see the fobs it comes with??? If you want the same performance, get the fob equivalent, The FlexEM

NOPE, YOU ARE INCORRECT, It is specifically designed, manufactured and made for the 2 chips.

Here are some more videos to help explain further

Yeah, I think we need to do some more digging.
It sounds like you have to be discreet, so on your door readers, are there any markings, logos, words, colours?
Are all the readers the same?
Can you “google” to find us an image?

Like @Devilclarke said above, quite possibly it is a Dual Freq. reader.

You mentioned the HF LED of the Diagnostic card lit up, but didn’t mention the LF LED…
Did that light up also?

I’m still a little unsure what is going on, especially with he KBR1 reader not working, I am thinking either faulty reader or the Card is a ISO15693 (the KBR1 only reads ISO14443A)

Let’s do some more testing.

Can you do me a favour, could you download Taginfo by NXP ?
Scan your access card, and let us know if you get any results ( feel free to hide the ID )

Chances are you have a dual frequency CARD (or fob) and the reader on the door is HF and reading the HF chip in your source device. Try scanning your card or fob with an NFC capable smartphone and TagInfo. The HF component of the card may be operating ISO15693 or possibly a fudged up Legic HF card… something the KBR1 will not be able to read, but an NFC phone should be able to.

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Copy cat :crying_cat_face: :arrow_double_up:

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well I am saying the opposite… the reader is HF only but the card may be dual frequency… it’s possible and does happen… often times when there is a transition from legacy LF to HF and dual frequency cards are deployed… but eventually the legacy support is no longer needed at the reader and it’s turned off… leaving dual frequency cards out there but the LF portion is not used.

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Right you are, which explains the diagnostic card LF LED not illuminating :+1:

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Sometimes it’s not even because there was a transition from legacy… sometimes people are just dumb and will buy the $20 dual frequency card instead of the $15 HF card they need because a sales person said “it’s better”.

People making laws, purchasing decisions, and policy for or around technology they fundamentally don’t understand make me weep for humanity. JUST CALL SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT TO HELP YOU.

A word of advice for everyone on the planet - never get purchasing advise from the sale person selling you the shit… call a consultant and tell them you want them to run reality checks on everything going during the sales process. In many cases you will more than pay for the consultant’s time in cost savings not buying stupid crap you don’t need.

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The LF LED on the card didn’t lit up on the gate scanner, only the HF LED. The scanner are all the same on all doors, just black rectangular plastic boxes with some indicator LED’s on the top. the dimensions are about 3"x5"x1" without any markings. I can try to snap a picture on my way out, but no promises on that.

Those are the devices which are used to clock in/out, the same badge cards are used for this. The diagnostic card will light up the LF LED on this device, but the NExT implant is not detected.

Hey Amal, you have a good sense of humor for a sales person.

HAHA, good observation.

Personally, I wouldn’t call Amal a salesman Per Se.
As cliché as it sounds, the products sell themselves.

Amal does all the back end stuff; Concept, Design, R&D, Manufacturing/ gets Manufactured, testing etc.,

I would say he “Brings to market” but doesn’t push/ “sell” them.

Sure. he tells us they exist or are going to exist ( okay, I just worked out he is more hype man than sales man, he is such a tease sometimes ), he then puts them on the website, he “sells” them, but doesn’t sell them
We kinda do that for him, via word of mouth, through our recommendations.

It’s all very symbiotic, If we take care of sales, he can better spend his time make us cool stuff to buy and sell for him.

Amal is a Salesman SMARTMAN

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haha thanks :slight_smile: I actually laughed because I am technically also advising people on what to buy, and I’m the one selling… so yeah I qualify as “not to be listened to” per my own advice. That said, I’m probably the worst sales person out there. I routinely suggest cheaper options and dial back people’s expectations and suggest starting with less and baby stepping into biohacking haha!

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@Pilgrimsmaster Thanks for the lengthy response. I’m quite familiar with the technology elements in play and capabilities of the different devices given their form factor. I’ve gone pretty deep into antenna theory as a HAM as well. I understand the Flex offers a different/better experience for range however for my implementation I sought to sacrifice performance that I didn’t think I needed (given my experience with the xEM) in favor of form factor AND I’ve had a great experience with the pill-chip format for the last 5 years. Overall I was just more comfortable going that route.

I think you may have misunderstood the intent of my message. Mostly I wanted to validate the OP’s experience with LF on the NeXT. The surprise for me was that the performance between the xEM and the LF side of the NeXT is not consistent. My xEM was programmed for my work-related use. I swapped that code to the NeXT (because it’s used with visible/accessible HID readers) and have reprogrammed the xEM for my personal/home use where readers will be hidden. Overall it’ll be a little less convenient logistically given that I’m right-handed but it should work fine.

But the NeXT just didn’t meet expectations on field strength given my previous experience with the xEM and my own assumption that the same chip and a similar antenna deployment would operate consistently. At this point it just seems that wasn’t a clean assumption. I still love the DT products and will absolutely stay loyal as my needs evolve. And I hope that this real-world experience will guide someone looking to implement a DT product for their uses in the future.