DISCUSSION - What is a cyborg? 🤖

Sure thing! I gave up trying to find THE answer. I am just generally amazed by the many interpretations. I find them interesting =)

Also, may I please visualise your category break-out similar to this?

Venn diagram

If you’re asking me, sure. But I don’t know how you’d do that?

Photoshop?

I meant more how you’d organize it. It’s basically a ladder list, with a binary, powered or unpowered choice. Still if you can make it pretty, go for it. Just share with the rest of us o’kay?

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I will need some caffeine to answer that.
I shall slurp some in the morning!

In my experience I found out the exact opposite.
It if far easier for me to explain what is a Grinder to a Lay person. (Despite that damn App, which definitely do not help).

Mostly because of modern media take on it, I guess…

If I mention the word Cyborg basically everyone I “tested” this approach with replied with a smirk, instinctively dismissed me as childish, and then was a lengthy conversation just to clear out all the misconceptions that word brought to the table (which in most cases became “irreparable damage”)

If I mention “Grinder”, They have no clue what it means (which is great, since a clean slate is much easier to work with). Then all I need to do is say something like “you know, those folks who shove magnets on their fingers or microchips in their hands…?”
That approach tends to catch them by their curiosity, without triggering any defensive mechanisms nor preconceptions.

Although my favourite approach to a Lay person is still to utilise “Transhumanist”, which allows me to query them about how much they know of Humanism… then I can talk a tiny bit about it, gauge the reactions, then I have quite a vast array of topics to bring up in a way to minimise prejudice and maximise curiosity hooks.

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That’s pretty much how I see that “categorization”.

There is scope for adding a bunch more “categories”, but we don’t even begin to have words for them, and honestly I am glad for it.
The more we create category divisions, the more a community tends to fragment itself.

Hmmm… why? I mean, putting LED on an implantable chip definitely has cosmetic purposes, I think.

I’m pretty new to all this, still. For me, grinders are mostly those crazy innovative people who don’t care much about the amount of pain and risks they take to try out new technology - Lepht Anonym would be such a case, at least for me.
Biohacking - at least for me, again - means kinda “improving” your body beyond things it was able to do before… like, opening doors with a chip, storing data, adding senses. And that’s why I have some problems with all this “nutrition-biohacking” - it’s (ideally, if it works) simply enabling your body to work as it should. Even if you go straight keto, you may change your metabolism a bit, but that’s nothing your body wouldn’t be able to do anyway.
Transhumanism is the philosophical background to all that, trying to answer the question of the meaning of further evolution for mankind - be it through technical means, genetic engineering, nutrition or anything else.

And that whole “cyborg-thing”… welll.
I call myself a cyborg jokingly, sometimes, when showing people my implants or my cyber-themed bodymods. I know that most people will associate that word to something blurring the lines between human and machine, and I know that simply by wearing a chip underneath my skin, I kinda fall into that area for them, so it’s okay. I’d never seriously call myself a cyborg - for me, this term is okay for someone like Stelarc, yes, but for me myself it feels wrong.

Still, some questions left…
Into what area of the above diagram would altering your psyche go? Like, drugs, meditation, all that stuff. Many people do that for recreational purposes, but some actually do it to “improve” their minds - would that be biohacking again?
And what about people who do massive cosmetic surgery - maybe beyond the point of being recognized as a human? Changing themselves on such a fundamental level (like, blurring the lines between human and cat, lizard, skeleton, whatever) feels like something “bigger” than just implanting a tiny chip to open up my front door…
I think there is at least some big overlapping between transhumanism and (more extreme) bodymodification / surgery…

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I’ve thought of this a lot. I don’t have my first implant yet, but when I do, I definitely won’t going around talking about it. If somebody notices and asks, I’ll answer.

But as cool as it would be to say “I’m a cyborg”, it would definitely make me come across as childish or delusional. Even though I’d be able to prove it, the word “cyborg” would raise people’s expectations too high, due to popular sci-fi representation.

The term “enhanced human” would just make it seem as if I’m perpetuating myself to be superior to others.

“Biohacker” can easily be confused with any of the other forms of biohacking.

So I’d just be me. The implants are a part of me, but they aren’t me. At most I’d probably describe myself a “grinder” - because that sounds cool and makes it easier to explain what my little hobby is.

But unless somebody asks, I probably won’t bring up what I have. After all - all implants I’m getting are catered to me, they only need to work for me.

If you’re in the US, you definitely should keep it to yourself. Too many crazies there.

In Europe, feel free. I do. It often leads to interesting conversations, and you often get to inspire someone to at least consider doing the same.

Just avoid two things:

1/ Don’t come up to someone and say “Hey, lemme show you something” out of the blue. That’s just showing off. Wait till there’s a decent lead in to introduce the subject.

2/ Don’t say you’re a cyborg, or the conversation will quickly turn comical at best, or plain peter out. Honestly: it’s never worked for me.

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My point about the term “biohacker” being associated with things that aren’t grinding.

The proper term in reference to grinding would be “body hacker” but that doesn’t sound as cool.

And, an analogy I’ve come up with, feel free to disagree or not:

Grinding is the black magic of biohacking.

Often regarded as extreme, or even taboo, some believe it’s dangerous and should never be practiced (Luddites, evangelicals, conservatives, etc). Then you have those who DO practice it, aware of the dangers & taking safety precautions, but still aiming for the best results.

Pretty much my plan. And yeah, I live in the US, and I’m already more than aware of how people here are… especially considering I’m in Florida… crazy is the perfect word.

But yeah, I think the only time I’ll ever refer to myself as a cyborg would be at the end of a conversation, a half-joke “Technically this means I’m a cyborg! Haha.”

But even that seems risky.

For the record, when I need to label who I am as an implantee, I call myself an “amateur transhumanist experimenter”. It’s longer, but it opens up conversations on how one can experiment in that field as a mere amateur, what it is exactly one can experiment with, what transhumanism is, and the people you’re talking to quickly realize it’s something they too can get into.

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That may just actually be perfect if you want to continue the discussion if somebody asks… I may use this! Thanks!

+1. (actually, to your whole post)
He even looks like a classic 70’s cyborg, even before you account for his implants! Bonus points for always looking so emotionless!

I sure see like so! Shame that small groups tend to isolate to “protect their identities” instead of aggregate.

70’s TV made a heck of a good job of F’ing up that word for any serious reason!

I can see your point there. And not disagreeing directly…

But I find it almost funny (because it actually makes sense) when people use “Grinder” as someone who would only be replacing/adding hardware to their bodies, or goes to extremes.
Even on @Atilla’s venn diagram, there is an underlying implication that “Wet Biohacking” is not something from a Grinder’s domain. (and it does sound right)

About over a decade ago, at the peak of the Grinder wave before “biohacking” became a “thing”… the Grinders were experimenting just as much with hardware as they were with wetware.
They came up with the magnets and microchips at the same time as the infamous “see-in-the-dark eye drops”, bioluminescent injections and whatnots…

But now there is almost a consensus (which actually sounds almost right for some weird reason) that a Grinder deals with hardware while a _______ deals with wetwork…
I mean… how the heck we managed to split that term without even coming up with the second word for it? :rofl:

It still puzzles me how we managed to cause such a lexical divide in such a short period of time, and not even finish the job! :persevere:

I know that labelling is part of the human process of searching for an identity, but if we keep on splitting such a thin community, we’ll never find strength enough in numbers to actually push ourselves forward. :pensive:

Anyhow, @Coma pointed out perfectly what I tried to say earlier: If I am to use the word Cyborg seriously, it won’t be for anyone less than Stelarc!

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Yes, so it belongs to :orange_circle:

Edit: I need to look into it :thinking: Is the only function of the xGlow to emmit light?
I should swap boobjob to LED implant that case.

Nice to see Im not the only one who is fascinated about this topic.
I had a great time reading all the comments.

@Coma’s point about fundamentally changing the body stood out.
That made me think if there is such a point where you can say: :scissors: from now on you are almost on the next level, but you still need to tattoo your eye-balls… of course there isn’t. :upside_down_face:The process of changing itself - almost like the pupa between :bug: and :butterfly:.

The word biohacking makes me cringe on the level most of you feel about cyborg.
I try to avoid describing myself as any of them above.
I say instead: I am interested in body modification.

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This is a wonderful description! When I sent a friend the first picture of my scarification, about one hour after it was done, I just wrote “Evolving” below the pic. That was exactly how it felt - becoming more myself, step by step, mod by mod. Don’t know where this will end - hope it never does.

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I feel similar. I consider healing the part of the process, mentally as well.
Maybe due to Memento Mori, maybe just being more conscious about the part of my body that is out-of-use while stitched.

I had the same gut feeling about biohacking, transhumanism and body modding. Chip implants and grinding are things I’m still really catching up on the history of but none of this seems so far removed from hard/heavy bodymod communities I’ve been a part of for years as far as general ethos goes!

I had seen LED implants around before I knew they could have practical applications or really understood how they would work. But I also don’t think that means that the practical application is going to be the primary drive for everyone who gets them and I’m not really sure where a hard line can be drawn between purely cosmetic and cosmetic-technical if that’s the case.

Trying to draft a hard line there brings up a lot of questions for me like:

  • How many use cases does a mod have to have to be considered technical?

  • What uses are and aren’t considered to be technical? As in - technical like technology, specifically, or technical like it expands or alters any given skill or capability? This question in particular could really broaden the technical-cosmetic overlap.

  • Does a mod being technical versus cosmetic/superficial (not meant in a derogatory sense) depend on the mod itself or the technical skill of the user/wearer?

Idk, mostly trying to puzzle this out for myself more than I am trying to make any hard and fast statements :slightly_smiling_face:

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