Good candidate for conversion? Methinks not - or perhaps yes :)

There are tags similar shaped to flex implants, I think Pilgrimsmaster shared them, there might be a DESFire version on aliexpress or something like that.

I could send you mine. It’s only lightly used. Let me just grab my hacksaw…

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Do you have a Magic DESFire card?

THAT would tell you SOMETHING

hf 14a raw -s -c 02 00 ab 00 00 07 xx xx xx xx

Nah. I’ll save me the expense and wait for Amal to tell me whether the damn chip I sent him is even convertible in the first place. It it is, then I’ll do the tests with the genuine article.

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Just a plain-jane DESFire card.

I’m not interested in raising an alarm, I’m only interested in knowing if it couples. Like Amal says, the PM3 sniffing the dialog would tell me. But I’m fairly sure I’d get thrown off the bus if I tried that.

In case it wasn’t obvious, I’m doing all this to be in a position to come back to my city’s PTA and tell them “I got the chip converted, it’s ready to implant, and I can confirm that it works” and ask their blessing to implant it. I know they have no time for my shenanigans, so I want to do all the homework before getting back to them.

The purpose being, I don’t want to do it underground and get in trouble with the PTA later on, as others have been. I want the “experiment” to be officially sanctioned, and hopefully the drivers warned that some idiot in their area will present his hand rather than a card to the reader and it’s okay.

If they refuse, well, I’ll have paid for a conversion for nothing. But that’s okay, I’m prepared to take the loss.

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Dude… You shouldn’t say stuff like that to me.

Okay so I took my PM3 to work with me this morning. I’ll grab a reader <-> card exchange in the bus tonite with my NFC gauntlet of doom:

The PM3 and the bus card taped to it just about fit inside my glove, which shouldn’t look too odd since it’s like 5 degrees out today. The lump inside the glove does look odd though. Hopefully the driver won’t get suspicious.

You really shouldn’t say things like that to me. It gives me ideas…




Okay, I have 2 clean transaction traces between my transit card and 2 readers - one older generation reader on the bus that services my work area and brings me to town, and one newer generation reader on the long(er) distance bus that brings me home

The older readers are just that - readers, with a kind of LED bargraph display that shows you how much “juice” you have left on your card. They read easily and quickly.

The newer readers have smaller antenna to make room for a touchscreen and a menu that lets you buy tickets in the bus. They don’t read as easily and they’re twice as slow.

It really shows in the traces: the older gen reader talks to the card in short independent sessions with multiple SELECTs and HALTs, and short read/write operations in each session. The newer gen reader does a whole bunch of apparently pointless and repetitive stuff as a preamble (this screams Android), then it does one giant session with very long operations and a shorter one at the end.

Anyway, I’m not really interested in what they do exactly. I grabbed those traces as a reference. Tomorrow I’ll try the same thing on the same readers with a M1k, see what both gens do - or don’t do - exactly. I’m hoping they’ll show a transaction, meaning they do indeed ignore “foreign” cards in the field.




That’s how you get to the good stuff :smiling_imp:

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I tried it with morning with the M1k. Only one of the reader coupled. Rats… Not sure which, but I suspect it was the old-style reader, because interestingly, it attempted to authenticate twice to sector 8, first key B then key A (with keys I now have of course. Hmm… more silly ideas :slight_smile:).

I suppose a Mifare Classic transport card based system was deployed here before they switched to the current DESFire EV card, and the old reader still supports the old cards.

No sign of magic backdoor command checking.

Also, I had the Proxmark3 in the palm of my NFC gauntlet of doom this time, and my legit transport card on the back. So I tried it once by palming the reader (and staying there for an inordinate amount of time to get a good read), then flipped my hand around and paid for my fare normally. The drivers weren’t too impressed with that trick, but they said nothing.

Finally, I discovered that a PM3 is a great hand warmer for the winter inside a glove. I might buy another one for my other hand :slight_smile:


I don’t suppose you have any news from my chip do you Amal?

I do not believe I have received it yet. Tracking?

I’ll check on the post office slip but I doubt it. There was an option to send it “special” special treatment for over 10 euros, and normal special treatment for 1.85. Knowing it’d get bogged down in the USPS network anyway, I chose the latter.

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I think if you didn’t get my chip at this point, it’s pretty safe to assume USPS lost it :slight_smile: Any news?

no news but i’ve seen untracked “normal” not-special things take like 30 days to get to be before from outside

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I put something i the post for you 42 days ago, So Yay, I have the new record :trophy:

the budda sticker package? the pi is much appreciated too :slight_smile:

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Wow then USPS has gotten even worse than I thought. Honestly, each time I send or receive mail to/from a developped country, the tracker shows it gliding smoothly on its way, until it reaches US shores where it simply stalls there forever. It wasn’t great when I lived there, but it’s sunken to new lows.

I think the speediest delivery I ever got was some large bicycle part I ordered at 4 in the afternoon from an online retailer in northern Netherlands. Normal shipping, nothing special. They shipped it rightaway, and I got it the next morning at 9 in southern Belgium - brought by a delivery truck with Dutch plates. Amazing!

Anyhow, let’s see how much longer my chip takes to get to you - if it does :slight_smile: