How many 13.56MHz implants needed, and where to put them..?

Thank you for the replay! And sorry for beeing totally noob…

Well, mainly I want to replace as many keys and cards as possible.

I have not been able to get my NTAG216 to be read on either my work, gym or my parents house - only for fun stuff as vCard etc - so I guess I’ll need a UNID / 125MHz. I have ordered a diagnostic card.

If I understand you correctly;

  • xM1 when I need to be able to set the ID.
  • Spark2 to be ready for doing payments etc
    Sounds like I will want them both in addition to a 125MHz… And a 125MHz UNID…?

Is it possible to have all that in two hands with out one interrupting the other?

Try using NXP taginfo on all cards / fobs you want to replace… if its high frequency it’ll tell you if one of the most common chips are being used. Easier / cheaper than buying everything and hoping one works.

the DT 125 kHz implant (xEM, NExT, flexEM mainly) emulates many many different types of tags including changing the UID… the main thing is checking readability and that it’s not a modern high security chip. Each implant can only emulate one card / ID at a time though, so some people buy a few (usually NExTs, sometimes xEM plus another HF implant)

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Sorry to double post, but some more info:

The spark is not capable of doing payments but the new Vivokey Apex, hopefully released early-mid next year will be able to pending Mastercard / Visa authorisation.

Theoretically, yes. There are people with 20+ implants in hands / forearms. It all depends on your body though… veins, thickness of skin, size of hands. Also some positions are more risky that others, due to location near bones.

It feels like a jungle… What are the practical differences between the different 125MHz? Only readability?

If I understand it correctly, the NExT have both a NTAG and a 125MHz, so as I allready have a NTAG I should probably go for one of the other.

Regarding the Spark; is there any scenario where one would wish to have both the Spark 2 and the new one that is coming?

How close can I put two implants with the same frequenze?

systems will only accept one group of chip types. in terms of implants - size, readability and additional HF ntag216 as you know.

if you don’t need another ntag, then yes.

yes - as a backup / purely ID implant - can link multiple to profile in case one fails

official recommendation with implants in general is 5mm apart - but with same frequency it could be more. it also depends on type - flex need to be further apart cause better range, xseries are harder to read so can be closer with precise reading. knife edge / webbing (position 5 / 0) are way apart, even if you’re super cautious position 2/3 (middle metacarpals) would also be safe from interference with xseries


This is what @DonFire is referring to.


Now it all makes a bit more sense! I’ll read more up on the forum and play a bit around with the diagnostic card. Thanks again!

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125kHz (kiloHertz) not 125MHz (MegaHertz)

Just off by a factor of 1000. If you find any implants with an operating frequency of 125MHz let me know. I’d be interested to test them out. ITU might have something to say about that, though.

I’m aware, thanks. Sure it was a typo

there are actually UHF chips in the 860-960MHz band, they’re just not as suitable for implantation / far less common and easy to use.

do let us know if you have any more questions!!!

Sorry, wasn’t paying attention.
Ignore my horrible Nfc/Rfid Knoledge XD

Ideally we should think the other way around, when it comes to implants working as keys.

Traditionally each door will have one lock, and each lock only accepts one key. So you make copies of that one key to give to whomever needs them.
This way, for each new door you gain access, you gain a new key.

Now, thinking within RFID logic, you should flip that:
Each door can have multiple keys, so instead of giving a copy of the key to each person allowed, you should give the ID (key) of each person allowed to your door to handle.
So you should only need one key to have access to as many doors as you want.

What does that mean?
let’s say you have your gym locker, your work badge and your building’s lobby, each one giving you a key card.

In an ideal world, instead of getting 3 implants, one to clone each card, you should have only 1 implant, with your unique ID, and then ask that ID to be entered into the system at your work, at your gym and at your home.
This way you should only need one key.

Why Ideal world?
Because unfortunately technology evolves faster than people can understand it, so most folks are still used to thinking about keys like they used to. So you can find even lock manufacturers who make their locks tied to a single ID, and then you need to clone the card to have multiple users…

Also, there are many different implementations, not only regarding HF and LF… but certain readers (or microcontrollers) are programmed to only read a certain type of card.
So that might make it so you need multiple chips.

Check what are all the cards you actually need to clone, then reach out to the people who manage security there and ask if you could add your chip into the system instead of getting a new badge/fob…

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I got a new question allready…
I’ve ordered a ACR122U; does this only read 13,56MHz? If so, what do you recommend for reading/copying 125kHz?

One of the readers I want my chip to work on is a Assa Abloy 6485EM ll, the other one a Yale Doorman v2n. There are also two more that I don’t have the names of yet. NFC TagInfo won’t read any of the cards, so I’m looking forward to get the ACR122U and diagnostic card.

Good chance these are LF


Hmmm, a Proxmark!

125kHz EM / HID / AWID Cloner

What are you trying to do with the info?

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My gym was positive to registrate my chip in their system, but my chip did not work with their readers. Same with the lock at my parents house.

My workplace are quite big, and the security guys refuces to even consider approving implant use, according to them it’s less safe than the card… They won’t even tell me what frequenzy the readers are, other than ‘multiple’.

According to US, they are wrong

If TagInfo doesn’t read the card, it is likely they are LF, but to confirm


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Do you have a read at both cards to know what type they are? or even HF/LF?

Unless they use a tt4 and actually do have something decent for secutiry.
Which I honestly doubt, since that is the same BS excuse they gave at my job when all they do is read the ID out of a tt2 which I couldn’t clone more easily.
(double negative. i.e. it’s stupid easy to clone)

I absolutely hate when security becomes about taking the action less likely to let blame fall into the head of security, instead of actually securing something…

I’m trying to figure out which implants I need and how to configure them to work as I want… As a girl with little to no experience with tech and no friends that are interested in things like this, it’s a bit overwhelming, so I guess alot of stupied questions will be asked…

The Proxmark, which software do you need? I think I read somewhere that Python where used with it. Sounds difficult for a noob?

There are no stupid questions.
Stupid is to not let yourself move forward due to a question not asked. :wink:

And I’m happy to say that this community feels like a fairly safe space in that regard.

The proxmark… You are in luck! @amal just got this post up yesterday:

should have everything you need there!


I’ve tried my chip on the readers, and NXP TagInfo on the cards. Did not work, so I’m currently waiting to get the ACR122U and a diagnostic card delivered by mail - guessing it will take a week.

As little as I know, I have no problem understanding that it’s bullshit that a implant is less safe than the card. So yes, it’s very frustrating. I’ve tried debating this with them twice, but…

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