That’s really good to know. Interesting to hear from practical experience.
I had made the wrong assumption that since they were so popular and apparently many people had them as existing modifications than they would heal better. And you know what they say about assuming ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, they are quite popular - they look cool, and the procedure to get them is pretty harmless as well, at least compared to other funny stuff 
But today (after some years or decades of experience), most piercers call microdermals “semi-permanent bodmods”, so you already know you won’t keep them forever. My piercer was actually surprised that my microdermals lasted for so long.
So I guess for a short-time experiment, it’s a viable idea - but not for something lasting. Especially not if there is any kind of permanent irritation going on, like wires going through it or something like that.
If you could manage to get the capacitive coupling (Or inductive sensor) be viable through the skin, is the idea to use the bistability to essentially “Flash” the image onto the screen and have it remain until it is changed again? Is the idea to circumvent the EPD controller all-together and manipulate the charges on the display via capacitance from outside the skin layer?
That could be the path if it worked after some testing, basically a one-sided e-ink display configured by high power electric pulses external to the body.
If that doesn’t work it could be possible to encapsulate an off the shelf flexible e-ink display and connect it to an EPC that can be configured over NFC or Qi.
Ultimately though the real question is whether you’ll even be able to see subdermal e-ink. Someone is going to have to try it transdermally like Amal did with a solar panel to find out.
Well porcine skin samples can be obtained post mortem for testing easily. Pig’s skin has a similar dermal/epidermal thickness ratio to humans and can be worked with without posing any human risk. Especially if this would be a quick proof of concept.
From what I’m seeing the e-ink requires 8.0X10^-3 J/cm^2 for a switch of the display. If the entire display were encapsulated would QI charging be able to satisfy that? (I know almost nothing about QI) I imagine the switch would be in the order of milliseconds so the wattage would be very low right?
I’ve just ordered an NFC Controlled EDP That I can try to implant under a dermal layer to test if there is any viability of seeing the pigmentation through skin.
Waveshare seems to have a proof of concept for NFC controlled EDPs (Though bulky) But assuming the pigment shows through skin could this mean some promise of NFC or Capacitance controlled subdermal e-ink?
Definitely. If we can prototype something I know Amal or even Cassox would be willing to encapsulate it.
If you’re still interested in LED array implants I’m sure @NiamhAstra with his litaf project and @TallowyCape would be interested as well. They’re not on the forum much anymore, but they’re still active on the discord
Just got the e-ink sheet in today. It does work via NFC with a surprisingly good read/write. I’m able to write from my iPhoneXs with case removed. The image quality is pretty good and has strong color. There is no power supply with the e-ink and it is entirely powered with the NFC device that is sending the information. The bistability of the e-ink holds steady and keeps the image “Locked” for lack of a better word until it is refreshed with a new image. The refresh is only three cycles as far as I can tell but it does a very good job of removing the previous image.
When it comes to viability through the skin I am unsure if it will show through.
Even when obscured with a clear white piece of paper there is little to no discernible image that shows through. I will still try some additional testing and even potentially still acquire some porcine skin to test. I don’t know if e-ink would be viable without a backlight; and that leads back to having a battery/ Permanent power supply issue.
I want to see is even possible setting the image to a thick black set of lines will allow enough contrast to show through skin, or even to show through when illuminated from the front.
Hey, @Satur9 summoned you I see haha.
Any ideas when if comes to a sub-dermal LED/ tattoo style solution.
I know others are working on “bracelets” to power NFC powered LEDs but I was wondering what the litaf project was all about.
I just found the discord and the Litaf channel. Now to catch up!
That’s awesome about the e-ink NFC. So interesting to see where the tech has gone and novel use cases for NFC energy harvesting. That’s unfortunate that you won’t be able to see it through the skin, but we kind of expected that. We’ll see if anyone makes any progress with e-ink tattoos.
The litaf will have several RGBW LEDs. The testing @NiamhAstra does during the course of the development will help determine how many NTAG I2C Plus or NTAG 5 energy harvesting chips can be put in one field to maximize power delivery.
Yeah, I was excited to see the litaf project and the work that @PaulT has been doing with his Kitt LED project, as these are closer to what I was originally envisioning anyway.
I actually just ordered 25 NTAG I2C Plus-es to mess around with myself. I seems like this product has the most merit when it comes to implantable “Art” or Just for fun LEDs.
I would love to see addressable LEDs in a grid in the future! It seems the logical if any of this proves successful! Would be a bit of a task to get a uC to control an array in unison but seeing the KITT1 gives me hope! haha
I look forward to your contributions. I don’t feel particularly strongly about underskin displays, but I believe it’s viable, and I’m willing to lend some advice where applicable.
You’ve been a huge help so far! Thank you for being so consistent with this project and so many others I see you involved in!
And if under-skin LEDs are not your thing than what would be your passion project? Both in the biohacking realm or otherwise what would be your dream project(s) you could have come to fruition?
Currently I feel very strongly about implantable payment because it’s such a compelling use-case, and after that I’ll be pursuing health monitoring some more. Honestly my “passion project” is whatever brings implantable technologies more towards the public sphere and into the hands of more users. That’s why I threw my hat in with VivoKey. The things I really want require more support and funding, so I’ll do what needs to be done to get us all to that point, collectively.
What a great outlook! Hopefully, as you say, we can all reach that point together. Especially with large supporters like you. I’ll have to take a look at the VivoKey/walletmor/purewrist side of things. I have seen it mentioned of course but has been more in my periphery.
I have recorded and included a video of trialing the NFC eink / epaper display for potential use under skin. As stated before the image quality is drastically decreased under a material as transparent as parchment paper and it is doubtful that any meaningful display would show through skin, or any thicker material.
For other uses, the use of the eink’s bistability allowing the image to remain indefinitely without the use of battery. The display is quickly and easily refreshed with an NFC enabled device and is pretty neat. I’m sure I’ll be able to find a cool use for it but not as an implant haha.