Positioning Advice | From 0 to 4 implants

Support
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Assumed so, just clarifying, It doesnt make a difference for placement or reading.

Thats a good combo and good plan.

With your planned placement, you should have no issue targetting your specific implants.

Depending on which ones and where you place them, you should be able to be pretty accurate.

Yep, Its one of 2 padlocks they have.

Its basically a $100 experiment.
$70 lock
$15+$5 Subscription
~$10 Postage (USA)
At the end, you might have a locked down useless padlock
OR
Quite a good padlock, the you paid $20 more for than you should have had to.

It’s compatible with my Spark, so I haven’t fully ruled it out, but equaly I dont want to support their business model, not even for a month.

Try the :help: function on the webpage (bottom right)

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A bit more than that from the EU (second shipping, VAT on everything…), but yeah, I guess it is. Still, would rather look for alternatives at this point.
So there is no padlock option for now, right?

Started searching, I may create a thread if I find some candidates unless you would view it as spam.

By the way, I really think DF needs an actual Wiki. I write for a living and could help a bit if that helps.

As a new user looking through long threads to find information is a recipe to make mistakes such as this one because it is really easy to miss a post or thread here and there.

Try the :help: function on the webpage (bottom right)

Already did that, thanks!

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not at all, sounds great

Have you seen this?

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I’ve been playing with the idea of stsrting up (yet another) unofficial community wiki. Would you be interested in helping to get it off the ground? My main concern would be lack of long term contributions due to the unofficial nature of it.

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If we could properly leverage the wiki powers of discourse would that be acceptable? I’m not sure it’s been implemented properly here which is why it’s kinda garbage so far.

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The docs plugin for discouse looks like it would be a good and easy place to start.

Ideally there would be a standalone wiki, I think. It would probably be easier to navigate and dig through. The login systems don’t need to be tied together between discourse and the wiki. I think spinning up a wiki.js instance or a mediawiki would be sufficent. Could start with a few trusted community members being the wiki mods.

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Is this the plugin;

I’d like to try something integrated with the forum platform first simply because I’ve already set up backup fault tolerance and CDN caching etc here… and the community is homed here.

If it’s not working out then absolutely I’d explore a separate wiki spin up

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Yup, that’s the one I saw. Thanks! I’m super excited to have a more centralized knowledge base.

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not at all, sounds great

Looks like I can find some that sell at over 400 euros, nothing I would need for a gym locker and similar. I find locks but no suitable padlocks (many passive options, not many active.)
By the looks of it, I will have nothing to post about this after all…

Have you seen this?

Yup, but I was suggesting an actual wiki, self-hosted or otherwise. Still, I definitely understand if one more thing to maintain may not be a good idea.
An actual wiki would be much easier to navigate and search content in. We could transfer much content there from the forum (crediting the forum users) and then keep everything updated there.

I’ve been playing with the idea of setting up (yet another) unofficial community wiki . Would you be interested in helping to get it off the ground? My main concern would be lack of long-term contributions due to the unofficial nature of it.

I would help set up a few, to be completely honest I have no idea how long I will be around. It could be years or weeks… I am a bit unpredictable even to myself.
Still, if you are doing that regardless I could get some content from the forum to the wiki. The thing is I mean an actual wiki, it could be a fandom.com wiki for all I care, as long as it is formatted as a wiki.

If we could properly leverage the wiki powers of discourse would that be acceptable? I’m not sure it’s been implemented properly here which is why it’s kinda garbage so far.

Would this be formatted and navigable like an actual wiki? That is my main concern. Revisions, multiple contributors, updates, rollbacks and easy search and navigation as well as cited sources are really important I believe.

Ideally there would be a standalone wiki, I think. It would probably be easier to navigate and dig through.

Exactly what I think as well. We are all investing energies into maintaining stuff on the forum that would not suffice if DT and chip biohacking grow further. I bet hard access to information has already scared some potential participants away. Easier access to well categorized and maintained information would spur adoption and development further in the long run.

The login systems don’t need to be tied together between discourse and the wiki. I think spinning up a wiki.js instance or a mediawiki would be sufficent. Could start with a few trusted community members being the wiki mods.

For what it is worth, I fully second this.

If it’s not working out then absolutely I’d explore a separate wiki spin up

It is not bad, but a wiki is just more accessible. This resembles readthedocs for developers which not many have used while a wiki is just a wiki and everyone knows how that works.

Of course, this is all just my opinion, I just appeared here out of nowhere a few days ago so I do not have deep insights into this community and its needs. My opinions may be flawed due to my mostly still outsider perspective.

Edit: @amal I believe that with the introduction of the Apex line you are actually tempting less dedicated/crazy/techie people into the space, and then the lack of easily navigable documentation scares them away. It won’t be just grinders anymore I think.

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I think those are exactly the kind of people who aren’t going to want to sit down and read several wiki pages to figure out what the difference between implants is

Many people show up here wanting to implant a card for a purpose they already have in mind, and often they have no knowledge of implants or even RFID technology in general. Launching straight into a wiki and looking at things like chipsets and different magic card gens and NFC standards just isn’t a good way to combat that in my opinion. Each and every wiki page would have to expand on every term or someone starting from scratch would have to read through dozens of pages to get an idea of what’s going on

Implants just aren’t a turn-key product for many people at the moment (I don’t have a VivoKey yet, maybe they are more so, I dunno), and it’s hard to get past the fact that there’s just a lot of information that you might need know about a somewhat niche technology before you go shoving it in your body

I would love to see a wiki, but I think it would be a better resource for those of us who are actually looking for a deeper dive into the technology than as a primer for someone coming in cold

The only way at the moment to get people into a solution that fits them without requiring to take in too much more information than they really need is to figure out what they need and provide it to them in a case-by-case basis, and until we come up with an effective quick-start, the forum provides a non-automated version of this by just allowing them to ask relevant questions and receive feedback from real people

Personally I find the forum quite easy to search and read through, but someone who has no idea about RFID or implants would probably have trouble navigating both the forum and a wiki. I know I did when I first got on here

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I imagine there would be a getting started page on the wiki that would walk new users through that. Keep in mind we aren’t pushing for replacing the forum, that would be avaliable for everyone to use. That being said, I hope most people would be willing to read a page or two before getting something implanted.

The issue with the forum is the spread out nature of it. One example is I bought several usb rfid readers that were highly recommened by several users across several threads, only to read one thread after the fact that mentioned this reader doesn’t work well on linux. Forum posts are great, but it will help everyone stay on the same page if there was a dedicated wiki.

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Once again, I will point out:

Both are publicly accessible full-featured wikis. Not sure what system Aox uses, but mine is MediaWiki with a few extensions. I’d be glad to modify it to suit the needs of the community or if desired, we could work out putting it behind a dangerous things domain.

ATM, anyone who signs up for an account can contribute to the wiki, just for accountability and anti-spam purposes.

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What sort of guide could you write on a wiki that couldn’t be written and pinned on the forum? I just don’t see the argument for the wiki format being especially helpful to newcomers

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You guys are tripping over exactly the same issue dangerous things has in general and that I’ve been struggling with for some time.

I actually have an idea that I’m developing which is basically a navigable set of videos. Each video segment is like a section of a choose your own adventure story and you can choose which video plays next based on choices. For example, the first video might be a very quick 30 second introduction about how rfid is all around us already (fobs, cards, etc.) and how it’s batteryless and can’t be used to track or locate in real time… then present some options like 1) do you already have an RFID device you want to use an implant with? 2) do you want to be able to share information with smart phones? 3) do you want to build your own solutions like a custom RFID door lock or car ignition project? 4) are you an advanced user that wants to explore PGP or Fido or Java card applications?

Basically something like that. They can watch the video and choose which direction they want to go in and just keep drilling down that way.

The wiki format has one value and that is that the community can directly modify a set of documents. It’s not a thread style like the forum, so I do see some value there.

I will try to get the docs plug in installed later tonight so we can play with it and see what value it could bring… But I think solving the question of how to handle newcomers is going to require something more novel, and I hope my video choose your own adventure approach will be well suited to the task. Any suggestions are welcome.

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Another advantage of the wiki is it’s much easier to organize information. You can add navigatable sections, break information up into multiple pages, easily imbed images, charts, and graphs, and the community can keep it updated.

Also, I’m not pushing for this just for new users. It would be an immense help with keeping hardware recommendations, software guides, advanced proxmark and other relevant sections up-to-date and organized.

As people have pointed out, there is a fairly big barrier to entry with this tech, more documentation will never be a bad thing.

The forum is just not good with organizing information. Case in point, this thread started as a post for advice on implant locations, but a majority is now discussing the need for a wiki. This happens on many threads, it is not a good way to find (up-to-date) information

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You are not stating anything we don’t already know. Every time you have said it…
We all know how a Wiki works.
Its not a new idea, As pointed out above.

It is however a cunt load of work, and again, as mentioned, it needs to be hosted on a suitable platform that is yet to be decided.

It is going to happen, but the time frame is unknown.
Repeating yourself is not going to make it happen faster.

The alternative and what will happen in the interim is, people will continue to come to the forum, and ask questions and the community will answer those questions and more

Its kind of what we do.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride

This reply sounds harsher than was intended, but I guess you get where I’m coming from.

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My reply was more directed at Aox, I don’t mean to keep beating a dead horse
Edit: please don’t take my comments as hating on the forum, I love reading everything and check it frequently

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I didn’t think you were, until now :rofl:
I totally get where youre coming from

You’re all good

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A post was merged into an existing topic: The anti​:no_entry_sign:-derailment​:railway_car: & thread​:thread: hijacking​:gun: thread​:thread: :interrobang:

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Sorry for disappearing for some days, work got crazy and should not be here now either lol

I think those are exactly the kind of people who aren’t going to want to sit down and read several wiki pages to figure out what the difference between implants is

I believe that a well-curated wiki is way easier to navigate and get information out of than threads on a forum.

Each and every wiki page would have to expand on every term or someone starting from scratch would have to read through dozens of pages to get an idea of what’s going on

That is how wikis usually work, you can click on many words and read the definition of that term.
My biggest issue with primarily using the forum is that you can so easily miss something because people talk about some subject in many threads, sometimes change the subject and then go back to the original topic… It is pure chaos.

I would love to see a wiki, but I think it would be a better resource for those of us who are actually looking for a deeper dive into the technology than as a primer for someone coming in cold

I think it works for both. I would have bothered people here way less with questions if I could have found the information by myself from the get go, then I would have probably also studied stuff more in-depth than I have having a well-organized repository of information.

imagine there would be a getting started page on the wiki that would walk new users through that.

Definitely, with one linking to a dedicated page just for the Vivokey Apex Flex users since those guys need very little technical information and could be good to go in ten minutes of reading tops.

The issue with the forum is the spread out nature of it.

I agree fully, navigating it works until it does not and a lot more time gets wasted on sifting through threads and posts that are not really relevant to the information you are looking for.
I also had a similar experience with the QuickLock Padlock. I basically ordered a chip just to use with that one only to learn that I missed that it is not really recommended anymore. I assume I missed some more recent posts about the padlock.

ATM, anyone who signs up for an account can contribute to the wiki, just for accountability and anti-spam purposes.

If someone puts together a plan of which pages we need I would do a couple here and there.

Another advantage of the wiki is it’s much easier to organize information. You can add navigatable sections, break information up into multiple pages, easily imbed images, charts, and graphs, and the community can keep it updated.

Once again I agree. But I guess we gotta put in the work if we want to see it happen.
How about we choose one of the unofficial wikis and contribute to it a bit?
I definitely won’t do that alone, but if there is a few of us contributing even just a page per month it will slowly but surely grow into something useful.

As people have pointed out, there is a fairly big barrier to entry with this tech, more documentation will never be a bad thing.

To be completely honest this is way harder than it needs to be, and the reason why —
at least for me — is largely how hard it is to collect all the necessary information. I spent days researching before finally ordering my first implants, and still feel like I do not really understand this whole thing well enough yet and am putting off the actual implantation until I understand all of it fully.
I would love to be able to study this stuff on some centralized knowledge repository instead of scouring hundreds of threads on a forum or bothering people with my questions.
This community and forum is great, people are really helpful and very much like it. I would just prefer it if I could find most of the information somewhere and then ask questions only for more advanced stuff or for advice from more experienced people before doing anything final. lol

It is however a cunt load of work, and again, as mentioned, it needs to be hosted on a suitable platform that is yet to be decided.

Definitely, that is why I am offering some help and not just raising a “we need a wiki” issue. Still, I will not even attempt it if I am at it alone or it is just me and another guy lol

By the way, received the implants today. Those needles are HUGE!
LOL

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