RFID chipping hazards


#1

I’m new to biohacking so forgive me if this comes off as ignorant.

I want to chip my 4 yr old daughter for reasons of my own. Not a whole lot is known about the technology at this point and I don’t want to do something that will have long term negative health effects. Needless to say she has small hands, is it too irresponsible?


#2

Um… I’m sure that myself and others would be very interested to know your reasoning behind “chipping” a 4 year old child. I would feel that this is definitely getting into issues of consent.

In many ways (as I see it) implantation of an RFID chip falls very well within the “informed consent” area of knowledge. We research the risks associated with the procedures and technology that we are using and make an informed personal decision.

I would say that a 4 year old child has not reached the level of maturity to make an informed decision on this. This is not a medically necessary procedure and serves no medically necessary purpose. (It barely even falls inside the category of medical procedure)

So, that being said, @usafvet19: Why do you want to implant RFID technology in her? Shouldn’t this be her choice when she reaches an age where she can legally make an informed decision on the topic?

I would venture to say that you probably won’t receive much support at all in this concept without at least saying why you want to do this. (Not to mention that I don’t know of any reputable body modification shops that will do ANYTHING with a 4 year old girl.)


#3

My guess is that you believe the chip to be some kind of personal locator or tracking device. That’s the only reason I would guess that you would want to chip a child… believe me, I’ve contemplated this for my own children - would I implant them if such a thing existed? … but the fact of the matter is, it does not. There is no “tracking chip” that can be implanted that gives you or anyone the ability to track down or locate someone. For many reasons there isn’t… some of which are outlined in this post.


#4

Basically what amal said.

I want to be able to track her and have some assurance of where she might be. My reasons for that are irrelevant to the community. From what I’ve gathered there are some software and apps that do allow tracking so long as you know the general vicinity of the chipped individual. Again, it might sound naive and ignorant but I’m still learning new things about this every day.

To answer UsedWeapons.

You have a point, but the way I see if your allowed to have your kids ears pierced or be circumcised the same should apply to RFID if it serves a good purpose.

Just my 2cents.


#5

Sorry to say there is no combination of chip + software / apps that can do this. There is one real slimy piece of crap charlatan asshole out there who is claiming this, but it’s absolutely ridiculous - you need to carry 2 pieces of hardware with you at all times, and the implant. Hardware A is an implant reader, that then talks to hardware B which is a GPS + cell phone (basically a smartphone)… the user must either 1) read the chip by physically placing the reader up to the implant location, at which time the reader communicates the ID to the GPS/phone, and the location is reported that way… or 2) the user must wear the reader strapped over the implant site 24/7… if the reader should come off the implant site, it stops working. He’s basically selling hopes and fairy tales to people, while the reality is a terrible mish-mash creating a bad application of various technologies.

There is no implantable tracker.


#6

@usafvet19, Unless you were using a UHF based RFID tagging system, the reader would have to be ridiculously close to the implantation site. (Basically, always in contact with the implant site.)
Basically, something akin to a RFID based vehilcle toll tag for highways. Even then, you would have to have readers placed every 10 feet for it for it to work as a “tracker.” Horribly inefficient.

I think a much more feasible alternative would be a small cellular, GPS/GLONASS based tracking unit.


#7

Just an FYI follow-up … even a UHF solution would not get you much range… like maybe 12-24 inches at absolute lab conditions best. Backscatter signal propagation is terrible when there is interference from water or metal, and the size of the antenna for an implantable UHF tag would make it exponentially worse.


#8

But, but… His 4 year old would never lose the key to the house. She could always get in after riding the bus home by herself… or something. :confused:


#9

True… but why is a 4 year old riding a bus alone or even standing around outside a locked house all alone? … would you like to talk about your childhood?


#10

LOL, dunno? Maybe the same reason he wants to chip a 4 yo? :smiley:

My childhood was GREAT! I could be the DT poster boy. Guns, 3-wheelers, welding torches and home made fireworks. Amazing that I still have all my digits.


#11

I was the lead systems engineer on an implementation of a uhf RFID equipment tracking system at work. We obtained dozens of sample tag models for testing: stickers and pucks, small and large, etc. We did extensive testing to inform our product selection.
There are plenty of tags that are designed to be mounted ON metal. We got very good range out of these when mounted on metal and mediocre range when not. IN-metal tags(usually placed in a small hollowed part of a tool) have read ranges fractional to any normal(surface) tag.
Key facts to consider:

  1. With radio wave propagation power drops off at an inverse square rate.
  2. UHF (the only “long range” frequency band for RFID) is line of sight. Multipathing is invariably going to degrade your communication.
  3. Maximal read ranges are around 10 meters.
  4. 10 meters read range is obtained with ideal conditions. Eg. tag antenna that is about 3 square inches or larger, highly directional reader antenna (beamwidth ~60°), reader power set to maximum etc.

Now, since our use for these tags is location tracking, OP might want to pay attention. Our capex for this project was a little over $125k to put together a system that tracks item locations within a 90,000sqft building with course fidelity (we can narrow it down to one or two rooms or get movement vector info). Opex runs around $5k. You could probably put something together for about $10k that would tell you what room your daughter was in in a 2500sqft house IF she was wearing a tag OUTSIDE of her body. Implanting that tag will easily multiply your tracking hardware costs by at least a thousand… I’m going to stop here.

Tl;dr you will not be able to track a person’s location with an implanted RFID chip


#12

Very good responses, thank you all.

All things considered I think I’ll experiment with GPS for now.


#13

Why do you need to “experiment” with GPS? Just buy her a cheap smartphone and install a tracker app on it. Extra lines cost $10 per month on T-mo. Easy and cheap.


#14

Come now. I’m sure he meant he’s going to research GPS solutions.
I don’t blame him. I once had my 8yo child picked up from school by a family friend. He was crying, yelling, and screaming that he wasn’t supposed to go with that person. Not a single teacher, duty aid, or other parent stopped it from happening. It was a simple misunderstanding, nothing nefarious. But we still immediately bought him a phone to keep charged and on his person at all times with GPS tracking enabled.


#15

There are GPS tracking units meant for cars… they have nothing but a GPS and cell radio inside. It can run off a 9v or a couple AA batteries for days or weeks at a time, and you pay a lower monthly fee than you would for a phone… and it’s smaller than a phone. The down side is that they are usually bulky.

There are also GPS pet trackers that go on an animal’s collar. They are smaller, but hold less of a charge… you basically have to charge them every day… but they are small enough that it might be easier to affix to clothing or hide on a 4yo than an obvious phone or a bulky vehicle tracker. Just be careful not to buy a bluetooth based “finder” or “tracker”… bluetooth is shit and doesn’t work beyond a few feet. You will want to find one that uses actual GPS receiver and cellular radio.

In either case you will pay a monthly fee for it because it also uses cellular data radio (and probably a SIM card) to talk to cell towers to get the GPS coordinates transmitted to you/the outside world. If you buy something that does not require a monthly fee, it’s bullshit and will not work well in the type of situations you’re wanting to use it for.