Thinking about getting one

Ok, so from what i understand it is in a lot of cases so much hassle that is not even worth to get. In that case, what is the cheapest of these for storing text securely and what other things it can do ? Right now im just doing a bit of research on this. I will then think about it and decide which one would be best for me. That Vivokey Apex what it is going to be able to do ?

If you mean a Proxmark3 Easy then it is a really useful tool that does things that very few other tools are capable of.

If you purchase one from Dangerous Things they will preload it with a recent copy of the Iceman firmware and you will always get support here to get it working and to walk you through the commands that you need.

As for the Vivokey Apex if you visit their site and scroll down to the “apps” section you will get a taste of what it is capable of.

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A lot of what you want to do is possible and It’s totally worth it, it just may involve some learning curve, there’s a lot to understand to make an informed decision, hell I’m still trying to learn a year after I was implanted

I use my implants for
Contact card
2 different access cards
Gun safe
Vax info
Potential hotel key cards (haven’t gotten the chance much thanks to covid)
Payment (when the readers aren’t crap)
Computer login

You just might need to consider more than one implant

There is no single implant that can do it all, and that’s not likely anytime soon

Getting more than one isn’t a big deal though, I did several at the same time

The apex will mostly let you run Java apps, which adds a whole new level of versatility, along with the standard stuff a high frequency chip can do

The encrypted text is possible, we just need to nail down what you want to do… and then we can figure out how to make it work

Now these :point_down: are things that might be more hassle than they are worth

I would more or less expect the transport card to not work, but it all depends on their system… there’s a chance that maybe they have a super out dated credential or something that’s easily coinable… but most aren’t
Additionally half the struggle sometimes isn’t even cloning to the chip, but the readers they use are pretty garbage at reading small chips… and there’s not much we can do to fix their readers

The health stuff, unfortunately we have a thread floating around here somewhere, where I believe a couple medical workers chimed in, that they would never spend the time to look for a chip… and even if you specifically told them where and to scan it… they likely wouldn’t be legally allowed to trust the data

Kind of like someone telling an emt the patient has a DNR, they sort of can’t take you for your word

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The medical stuff might depend on where you are, but…

  1. medical records can easily be a lot larger than a chip can store.

  2. Medical personnel aren’t going to randomly scan you for a chip they don’t know about.

  3. A lot of procedures (when possible) require staff to check your name, date of birth,… Every time to ensure they are administering the right treatment to the right patient.

You would be better off putting your medical records on a website and having the URL (and password) tattooed onto your body (perhaps as a QR code). They might still ignore it, but at least they will know that is there.

Ok good to know. In that case it would be mainly for me because i forgot all the time. So i what parameters i need to provide to know if copying my public transport card is possible ? I decided on smaller amount of things i would need:

Access card(work etc)
Credit card payment
Public transport card
Store small amount of encrypted text
Small amount of non encrypted text

Is this all possible in one chip ? I guess that the credit card is going to be a main issue from what was said in this thread before.

No. Credit card and transit are almost certainly their own chips.

To really answer your questions we need TagInfo scans of the work badge and transit card.

So in case of my public transport card i can read it with my phone but in case of work access card i can not. You just need to know IC type and supported technologies right ?

So full scan is needed ?

That’s a good thing. It might be clonable to a NExT then.
This means you might be able to combine your text use cases and work access in 1 implant.

You can censor your ID if you think we might clone your card find you in real life and break in.

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It’s just easier for us to see what we are dealing with so we can better help you


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When i thought about it, i do not need to use it for public transport it would be just cool gimick for me. So it would be probably easier and better to focus on my main use case. I wanted to make my life a bit more convinient if im already researching this stuff but, the main problem for me is that i do not want to have multiple implants. I understand that there are limitations but it is just no go for me. I like to have it simple. My main use case is storing securely very small amount of text. Like few words maybe 5 sentences and in best case for a long time without corruption. Other features are bonus for me. What would you recommend in this case ?

Sorry for always changing things i would want.

xDF2 has 8kb but its a bit work to set it up.
If I was you I’d go NExT because that likely also covers your access card and you have almost 1Kb of room for text.

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I concur

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We all were at that point, but a keyless/cardless life is worth some stabs.


Ok i checked NExT and it seems like exactly what i would want. I roughly tried to write the amount of text i need and it seems that even though there is not that much memory, it is more than enough for me.

13.56MHz NTAG216 NFC Chip

  • 13.56MHz NXP NTAG216 ISO14443A & NFC Type 2 chip
  • Full datasheet for the NXP NTAG216 RFID/NFC chip
  • 7 byte UID and 886 bytes of user read/write memory
  • 10 year data retention. Rated for 100k writes per memory block.

What is the all stuff i need to read/write to both of these chips ?

xDF2 has 8kb but its a bit work to set it up.
Why it is “a bit of work” to setup ?

It seems that xDF2 is even better because it has higher data retention:

  • 13.56MHz ISO14443A & NFC Type 4 DESFire EV2 RFID chipset
  • Full datasheet for the NXP DESFire EV2 RFID/NFC chip
  • 7 byte UID and 8K bytes of user read/write memory
  • 25 year data retention. Rated for 500k writes per memory block.

Speak for yourself, I came in like a wrecking ball :upside_down_face:

Someone’s gotta beat @JennyMcLane and @Vicarious for the high score

A couple points to consider, as it looks like your looking at the NExT (a solid all around multi function chip)

The NExT isnt “secure” per se

Someone could scan you chip and get it’s full payload, highly unlikely for a multitude of reasons…

but I don’t want you thinking the NExT is going to protect whatever you put on it, most of the more basic chips
xEM (t5577)
xNT ( ntag216)
NExT ( t5577 and ntag216)
Are literally designed to shout their info when ever a reader reads them

If you want the data to be secure, you’ll need to encrypt it on a computer or phone first, and then copy the encrypted text to the chip

Which I’m guessing might defeat your purpose, I think the some of the more secure stuff like the xDF or other desfire variants don’t reveal payload unless prompted the right way

@Pilgrimsmaster, I don’t know enough about desfire to advise, any input or anyone a go to?

About the data retention, it SUPER sounds like we’re just talking about crypto passwords and what not

As much as I like the idea of storing something like that in a chip as a failsafe, don’t forget the that the chips aren’t indestructible or infallible… shit happens sometimes… make sure all your eggs aren’t in one basket

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So xDF2 would be safe if stored with weak or no encryption ? There was said that it is “a bit of work” to setup. What does it mean exactly ? I would like to try it first with some card type of xDF2 if i would decide for that one.

I think we need to clarify some stuff before we get wires crossed

Define what you mean by “safe” and what are you storing?

The more info you give us the better we can advise
You don’t have to reveal exact text or anything like that