A few basic questions

[r00t]

Alright, next came this morning. After a visit to my ripper doc, it was successfully installed.

[StarGazer1258]

[r00t]

Both sides of the chip are reading fine. I will give it few days before attempting to write, but as overall installation went very smoothly

[invalid_signal]

[r00t]

Hey Folks, instead of creating a new topic I’ve decided just to bump this one.
So far, so good. NeXT in L0 got fully healed, and xMagic in R0 is healing just fine, despite some unfortunate events around the install. So moving forward, I am looking for a Vivokey Apex. Since there is no injectable apex yet, I was looking to get the only available option - the flex. Honestly I prefer glass implants instead of polymers. I was planning to go to Germany to get the implant, but the financial aspect becomes hairy. 400 euros for the implant, plain tickets are around 200-400 euros, plus install I guess 100-150 euros, plus expenses for uber, and some other small stuff, the bill becomes kinda big. Now the upcoming questions. I spent last few days digging around and I would like to recap. So the apex flex comes sterilised but the needle is not. Needle must be autoclaved before the install. My question here is, when you stick the needle to make the channel under skin and then retract it, how do you push the implant in? I red that using forceps is not recommended because it ruins the implant coating. Also based on some math the pocket is pretty deep. Bevel down when installing means the bevel should be like doing a regular injection, right? I was not able to find an install doc for flex implants. I may try my piercer but I need to clarify those things before that. Also, how much the flex impants migrate compared to x series ? Thanks a lot.

[Az_F]

@r00t

how do you push the implant in?

You should be able to slide it in with your fingers (gloves!). You can maybe push it but with a blunt tool nothing with sharp edges obviously (hence why no forceps).

@r00t

Also, how much the flex impants migrate compared to x series ?

That really depends on you and the install but based on my experience , much less or not at all. They are big and less “aerodynamic” so it makes sense. Round ones tend to spin around though.

You should be able to find many install videos in the Install video thread.

[amal]

@Az_F

You should be able to slide it in with your fingers (gloves!)

Sterile gloves! Touching the implant to get it under your skin with unsterile tools or gloves is increasing the risk of infectioniom quite a lot. A professional is absolutely our recommendation. Even putting on sterile gloves without contaminating them is a challenge and requires training.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@r00t

Also based on some math the pocket is pretty deep. Bevel down when installing means the bevel should be like doing a regular injection, right?

@amal

Needle technique can help with this… basically if you go point up, bevel down, it’ll be 10x smoother to install since there will not be any skin bunching up in the needle hollow. The problem is that with the point up, controlling depth is harder. The modified approach would be to go in bevel down until the bevel is fully under the skin, then rotate the needle 180 degrees so the bevel is up (and the point is down), then proceed to depth.

@r00t

I was not able to find an install doc for flex implants.

I hope that helps

[Blu3Rats]

I airsoft and have been shot on the implant in my left hand numerous times with no ill effect and we play in an indoor range with no rules on engagement distance so its always close. It hurts like hell but no ill effects or damage to the implant

[r00t]

Cool, thanks all. So just to make sure I fully understood, implant can be pushed till the end of the pocket just with hands(in sterile gloves)? Ain’t this risking implant to be bend or there is no such risk? Also what place would you recommend for the install? I was thinking about right hand just above the wrist like so

[hadoukenboy628]

@r00t

My question here is, when you stick the needle to make the channel under skin and then retract it, how do you push the implant in? I red that using forceps is not recommended because it ruins the implant coating. Also based on some math the pocket is pretty deep. Bevel down when installing means the bevel should be like doing a regular injection, right?

Copy and pasted from dt product page

Incise skin using a 4g (5mm diameter) piercing needle, bevel side down
Carefully insert the needle to a depth of at least 35mm (video)[video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdEWCpd1ls)
Be sure to lift the skin ahead of the needle’s point as you insert it
Slide flex device under skin with sterile gloves – no forceps or tools
Achieve complete hemostasis before applying bandaging
Use re-enforced butterfly bandage or dermal strips to pull wound closed
Apply transparent film (tegaderm) dressing overtop the dermal strips
While hemostasis is maintained, do not remove bandaging for 7-10 days

[Az_F]

@r00t

Ain’t this risking implant to be bend or there is no such risk?

They are more rigid than you’d think and will be held flat by the pocket itself. That said be delicate and make sure to make the pocket deep enough. Having to expand the pocket afterwards always makes a mess and can seriously slow down your healing by unecessary butchering the skin.

@r00t

Also what place would you recommend for the install?

Looks about right, if it was me I would move slightly slightly up on the photo so as to avoid being right on the bone.

@r00t

First it was a hobby, then it became a job which now pay my bills. I am DevOps engineer with heavy interest in security field. What drives me forward is the curiosity to explore (the limits) of technology. For me this is never ending fun. Engineering is something I really love. Take things apart to see how they work, then assemble them again and in case of a need improve them.

I completely missed this part. I love it! Do you happen to do any C#/java/android? I could use some help on some not so secret projects

[pac]

@r00t

So the apex flex comes sterilised but the needle is not

I believe the needles come sterilized as well.

[amal]

Part of the process of picking it up by hand means you can hold it much closer to the leading edge being put under the skin at first… no reason to just push it from the far trailing end only. This means the midpoint of the flex where the mob package chip rests should actually be under the skin before you resort to pushing it from the back edge.

[r00t]

That looks pretty sterile to me. Cool, so the folks figured out a way to restrict the needle to puncture the sterile package. Neat

[r00t]

@Az_F

Do you happen to do any C#/java/android?

To be honest, I do lil coding lately. Usually what I do is mostly bash and some python. I am more of a infrastructure architect kinda guy(with very strong linux background) and on top of that I switched to a management role few years ago (so whatever I write/code is not really a production grade).

I have kinda skinny hands. Why not on the bone. This seems to be the place where skin flex less and access to this place is kinda easy. If you can suggest another position where to place it, please do so. Also something else I am considering, the forearm is full of blood vessels so install would be interesting

[ChuckyCheegles]

I’ve done an x-series in the forearm and it bleeds A LOT more than you’d expect. I easily stopped the bleeding and was fine though.

[Az_F]

@r00t

Why not on the bone

Just in case of impact

[r00t]

Okay it was a nice day spent in digging more and more in DT forum looking for install locations on my arm, and honestly I do not see much alternatives, but anyways I will continue reading.
Meanwhile I pulled the trigger and Apex flex should arrive here next week(ish). Still have to make up my mind if I want to go back to Germany for the install. I know it’s kinda on the expensive side of things, but I prefer to get it done properly. I am pretty sure if I go and visit some of the plastic surgeons here( who mainly do boob jobs and lips) it wont be much cheaper. Duh

[pac]

@r00t

I was thinking about right hand just above the wrist like so

that’s where mine is located and it is a great choice. Id recommend going with the arm opposite of the hand you normally hold your phone with to make scanning it easier.