A few basic questions

Both sides of the chip are reading fine. I will give it few days before attempting to write, but as overall installation went very smoothly


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Hey Folks, instead of creating a new topic I’ve decided just to bump this one.
So far, so good. NeXT in L0 got fully healed, and xMagic in R0 is healing just fine, despite some unfortunate events around the install. So moving forward, I am looking for a Vivokey Apex. Since there is no injectable apex yet, I was looking to get the only available option - the flex. Honestly I prefer glass implants instead of polymers. I was planning to go to Germany to get the implant, but the financial aspect becomes hairy. 400 euros for the implant, plain tickets are around 200-400 euros, plus install I guess 100-150 euros, plus expenses for uber, and some other small stuff, the bill becomes kinda big. Now the upcoming questions. I spent last few days digging around and I would like to recap. So the apex flex comes sterilised but the needle is not. Needle must be autoclaved before the install. My question here is, when you stick the needle to make the channel under skin and then retract it, how do you push the implant in? I red that using forceps is not recommended because it ruins the implant coating. Also based on some math the pocket is pretty deep. Bevel down when installing means the bevel should be like doing a regular injection, right? I was not able to find an install doc for flex implants. I may try my piercer but I need to clarify those things before that. Also, how much the flex impants migrate compared to x series ? Thanks a lot.

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You should be able to slide it in with your fingers (gloves!). You can maybe push it but with a blunt tool nothing with sharp edges obviously (hence why no forceps).

That really depends on you and the install but based on my experience , much less or not at all. They are big and less “aerodynamic” so it makes sense. Round ones tend to spin around though.

You should be able to find many install videos in the Install video thread.


Sterile gloves! Touching the implant to get it under your skin with unsterile tools or gloves is increasing the risk of infectioniom quite a lot. A professional is absolutely our recommendation. Even putting on sterile gloves without contaminating them is a challenge and requires training.


I hope that helps

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I airsoft and have been shot on the implant in my left hand numerous times with no ill effect and we play in an indoor range with no rules on engagement distance so its always close. It hurts like hell but no ill effects or damage to the implant


Cool, thanks all. So just to make sure I fully understood, implant can be pushed till the end of the pocket just with hands(in sterile gloves)? Ain’t this risking implant to be bend or there is no such risk? Also what place would you recommend for the install? I was thinking about right hand just above the wrist like so

Copy and pasted from dt product page

Incise skin using a 4g (5mm diameter) piercing needle, bevel side down
Carefully insert the needle to a depth of at least 35mm (video)[video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdEWCpd1ls)
Be sure to lift the skin ahead of the needle’s point as you insert it
Slide flex device under skin with sterile gloves – no forceps or tools
Achieve complete hemostasis before applying bandaging
Use re-enforced butterfly bandage or dermal strips to pull wound closed
Apply transparent film (tegaderm) dressing overtop the dermal strips
While hemostasis is maintained, do not remove bandaging for 7-10 days
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They are more rigid than you’d think and will be held flat by the pocket itself. That said be delicate and make sure to make the pocket deep enough. Having to expand the pocket afterwards always makes a mess and can seriously slow down your healing by unecessary butchering the skin.

Looks about right, if it was me I would move slightly slightly up on the photo so as to avoid being right on the bone.

I completely missed this part. I love it! Do you happen to do any C#/java/android? I could use some help on some not so secret projects :smirk:


I believe the needles come sterilized as well.

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Part of the process of picking it up by hand means you can hold it much closer to the leading edge being put under the skin at first… no reason to just push it from the far trailing end only. This means the midpoint of the flex where the mob package chip rests should actually be under the skin before you resort to pushing it from the back edge.

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That looks pretty sterile to me. Cool, so the folks figured out a way to restrict the needle to puncture the sterile package. Neat

To be honest, I do lil coding lately. Usually what I do is mostly bash and some python. I am more of a infrastructure architect kinda guy(with very strong linux background) and on top of that I switched to a management role few years ago (so whatever I write/code is not really a production grade).

I have kinda skinny hands. Why not on the bone. This seems to be the place where skin flex less and access to this place is kinda easy. If you can suggest another position where to place it, please do so. Also something else I am considering, the forearm is full of blood vessels so install would be interesting :smiley:

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I’ve done an x-series in the forearm and it bleeds A LOT more than you’d expect. I easily stopped the bleeding and was fine though.

Just in case of impact

Okay it was a nice day spent in digging more and more in DT forum looking for install locations on my arm, and honestly I do not see much alternatives, but anyways I will continue reading.
Meanwhile I pulled the trigger and Apex flex should arrive here next week(ish). Still have to make up my mind if I want to go back to Germany for the install. I know it’s kinda on the expensive side of things, but I prefer to get it done properly. I am pretty sure if I go and visit some of the plastic surgeons here( who mainly do boob jobs and lips) it wont be much cheaper. Duh

that’s where mine is located and it is a great choice. Id recommend going with the arm opposite of the hand you normally hold your phone with to make scanning it easier.

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Hopefully it’s getting installed soon


I guess it’s time to bump my own topic once again and provide some nice read for the audience.
So, I finally got my Apex flex installed yesterday morning. Long story follows.
Two weeks ago I bought a ticket to Köln. I already made my mind to visit Arnulf from Stigmata Inc, recommended from @Coma and also @Pilgrimsmaster I’ve emailed him two weeks ago to make the appointment and then booked the tickets for the trip.
Previous night I wasn’t able to get much of a sleep because I was hyped on the idea of getting the apex installed and also the departure was really early in the morning. Went to the airport, took the plain, with one mid stop in Vienna, and few hours later I’ve landed successfully. Next was to get to the studio. Uber is your friend but it becomes kinda awkward when the driver does not speak English. Regardless, we met with Arnulf in front of the studio despite it was his free day, at the exact hour of our agreement. After grabbing my 5th coffee for the day, and speaking with the guy how exactly the procedure will go, we’ve started.
Before I proceed further I would like to point out that his studio is what I would expect from such place. Clean and tidy as surgery room. Extreme hygiene!!! This even more boosted my confidence that I am at the right place( and I took the right decision to trust very experienced professional). After we chatted where the implant should be he started preparing all the needed tools for the procedure, and then he shaved part of my forearm, above my wrist. He proceeded with cleaning area with iodine solution, then created an incision with a scalpel, used skin separators to make the pocket and slided the implant in. All ended up with 3 stitches to keep the tissues tight and sterile bandage on top. Install took around 5 mins, way less than the preparation itself. I would like to point out that Arnulf has 27 years of bodymod experience under his belt, so he definitely knows what he’s doing. Since my work with him was done, we shaked hands, wished all the best, and it was time for my tourist tour of Köln. Walked 15 km around the town, checked the cathedral, the bridge, and everything around them. Seems like right now it’s the tourist season, so it was full of people :slight_smile:
After I was done exploring, took another uber to the airport, spent some time with my kindle reading, boarded the plain, and went back home via the same route as I’ve arrived. I was extremely exhausted but it was amazing day full of emotions, nice people, nice views, nice feelings, so I would say it was totally worth it! That’s mostly it. I did not made any pictures or videos to share with you guys, but I hope you find this read interesting. Cheers! Oh btw I’m enjoying the apex very much. I was playing with it before the install, but now since I am bringing it everywhere with me it’s even better :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: