Another newcomer

Hello Dangerous Thing’ers!
I’ve kept an eye on dangerous things for years. I work in software, and visit local hacker spaces for project resources and to delight in other minds.

I’m interested in getting implants. I’ve found the wiki intro thread, and purchase feature matrix of some help, in general familiarity.

I’m interested in NFC, (payments, maybe), probably dual-band access control, developer friendly/re-programmable chips. URL and vCard embeds look like nice tricks. And a bio-magnet seems essential to me.

I’ve been wishing for (looking for, but no longer expecting to find) chips that can be switched dead/non-responsive by default, e.g. toggle by pressure or squeezing. @anAndroidIdeally mentioned chips with LEDs, and I’ll direct my research there for related capabilities.

I’m interested in design, fabrication, firmware, and programming of the chips, and will dive into learning about that in a few weeks or months, after I’ve adopted implants.



I always want more ways of interacting with chips, but I think a concern here would be keeping the encapsulation from failing when you are moving it to press a switch

Maybe something magnetic and non mechanical?

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Sooo you like it techy yeh? You could be interested in the DF2 chips.
And you’ll love the VivoKey Apex once it comes out.

LEDs can be put on every flex implant (fingernails), but theres also a glass LED that you can inject next to other chips. And theres the xSIID, LED + chip.

Payments are rough… read more here:

I have talked to amal about invivo buttons, so idk, might be “just around the corner” after all the Titan/Apex stuff is done. Amal has many nice ideas and even some patents!
Surely there will be much epic stuff in the next couple years.

And last but not least, welcome :slight_smile:



That would be fun, but a pressure switch under your skin would be a bitch to toggle on/off…

plus this:

Despite this not existing yet, what you can do is a Desfire chip with an encrypted client applet that only responds to specific and encrypted requests.

If you only use that chip through the Applet, then you’re as good as toggling it on/off, for most use cases.

Second that!!
(and that DF2 @yeka posted a pic of is currently in my right hand)

I’ll soon have enough time to finish a Javacard applet which you can use with Apex as another approach, so I can upload into a new github repo.

Will post something here once I’m done with it, but won’t be so soon.

EDIT: I mixed up terms and that derailed my train of thought. fixing it now to avoid confusion.
Thanks @fraggersparks for noticing!


Wonderful. I’m already glad I posted.

I guess I could check Digi-Key or similar for existing examples, temper my hopes and expectations. It could have internal mechanics, linear or rotational, otherwise it would need to be active electronic, right?

Do you think magnetic/inductive coupling could work for active powering. Isn’t there a recent thread suggesting a bracket for active powering?

Definitely catches my eye.

Are they added under the polymer layer?
“Next to” as in “no spacing requirement” or “inductively powered by through flesh-gap”?

Oh I see, @amal does the manufacturing. “Customer gets what the customer wants”-customization. Hmmm.

Buttons for you too. I’ll keep that in mind @yeka

I thought I had left Java behind, but it may yet become a part of me.

Nice push for DF2 lights. I look forward to hearing about or asking you about your dev efforts.

How many bytes will it take to fit that on a Javacard? What’s a normal capacity? Oh it’s the newest(?) feature chip with glass.

I absolutely hate Java.
Yet… Javacards are the only current option for doing these… hencefoth the only acceptable use-case for Java in the modern days.

There are so many cases where Java is literally the worst possible choice of a language, yet the lead engineer chooses Java solely “because I know how to do that in Java, so it is the best”…
That just drives me nuts!

Anyway… I would say Javacard is to Java like Java is to C#… basically the same language, but not really.

Not sure what exactly was the question here…
Active powering… as in charging something beyond the chip?

Think my confusion comes from…
Since the chips are always passive, they will always become charged through the magnetic coupling. (re-explaining thinking of other newcomers coming here with no basis at all)

So… did you meant using the magnectic coupling to power an internal mechanic switch?

If so, I would be concerned that such a switch would be rendered moot. Since every time the chip can be read it becomes unlocked, and when it cannot it would become locked.

but there are some magnectic switches which could turn a chip on/off (none that I saw actually working with a chip, but it’s technically feasible). and they can be turned on/off by waving a magnet (which you will probably implant into a finger in the other hand) :wink:

Yep, they’re added inside of the biopolymer.

“Next to” meaning that they need 5mm apart, but that’s just for physical safety, to avoid the implants banging together (would be bad for the implants + bad for your flesh in-between).

The xLEDs (the glass LED mentioned) are completely separate with their own normal antenna, they aren’t powered through the flash gap or anything. They just act like a separate implant, but people usually put them next to another implant.

Especially if put next to another glass implant, in the same orientation, it can act as a field orientation guide, helping you find the right positioning for the actual RFID implant next to the LED.

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I would be careful planning an implant that is switched magnetically with a Reed switch or Hall effect sensor. The magnet would mess with any antenna tuning and cause inconsistent reads, as well as your finger with the magnet physically getting in the way of good positioning.

Why do you need an implant that can be “switched off” if it doesn’t have an internal battery? Seems kind of silly, because the presence or lack of a field is a natural on-off switch.

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In terms of restricting the readability of the chip I’d rather imagine a moving shield inside the glass.
Almost like a mesh you can be moved with a magnet.

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Not… quite how it works, sorry. Apex chips run JC. Desfire is just key storage.

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Been working directly with @amal for over a year. And as a developer myself I can’t recommend the Spark 2 enough.

Not just because what the chip can do, but the actual platform that supports it. Oauth2.0 & OIDC on a AES cryptography powered chip. Is the answer to many security issues.

(Btw is there a specific reason you want to “turn it off”?)

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You are perfectly correct.
I kinda amalgamated 2 projects there… and in the end said neither!

One thing is a Desfire with a proper client applet. (which is what I have in my hand)

Another thing is a custom Javacard Applet (which I am writing at the moment, in anticipation of Apex becoming a thing)

Yet both can be used to achieve what I meant in the previous post, I ended up mixing both in my sentence. (that’s what I get for posting before having coffee) .:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I think I only meant the DF with a custom client applet when I wrote it, but I’ll edit it to reduce confusion.

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