That’s a tall order.
Getting a card converted is likely to be your only option for the time being.
NGL, expiration dates are one of the reasons why I don’t have a payment implant.
Not an option in the UK.
Here cards are required to be inserted every N contactless transactions. (There aren’t any contactless only cards)
Although I did try Walletmor. Silly me.
Currently I’m pretty satisfied with a ring, though.
Worst is… those “security measures” don’t actually improve security. at all.
They are completely arbitrary options.
If you get one of those platinum cards that you need to pay £15K a month… they never expire. But regular banks also don’t issue those.
yea i get the 15k card thing and all XD, i was planning on calling to my bank about haveing them team up with DT as they are always looking for ways to get more people to sign on with their bank.
i feel that if they offered this and worked with DT to get it done, not only would the biohacking comunity jump at that, ontop of it, a lot of gen z are wanting to get a payment card implant but are litraly waiting for a non expiraing card to do it with.
If they where to offer it and sell it, not only would it make them alot of money, but it would also help the comunity start striving to what we want. it could even ( possibly!!) cause a change accross all banks.
as for the cards that work within the uk, i stayed up untill like 6 am last night and found this: About MuchBetter
They are a uk based company that sell the micro cards that can be converted to an implant, i dont know about the exparation on them yet, but it looks like a better option for the people within the uk.
P.S: sorry if some of this didnt make sence i just slept 10 hours and now i feel dead. X3
Some banks are quite interested in it, actually!
Unfortunately that seldom helps us since these arbitrary limits are imposed by Visa/Mastercard/Etc…
Which includes a requirement on the type of chip, in a way.
As in… on one hand we have virtual cards, which are super flexible and etc… but they need to call a bunch of autenthication APIs, which requires a somewhat active “back end” that actually generates a virtual card token on the fly. This is what Google Play does.
On the other hand you have credit cards and other payment chips. Those are required by the providers (Visa, etc) to be locked with read only access in the memory segment which stores a token. If the chip is of a type where you could write to memory the provider will reject it… but that’s also the only way we could “refresh” or “update” a chip’s authentication token (to make it last forever)
Then, on top of all that, there’s UK. Which add even more faff to all of those electronic transactions, such as demanding both:
- cards must be inserted into a chip & PIN reader machine every N transactions)
- Electronic payment services such as a FOB payment must have the user logging in into an App with Biometry or a second method of autenthication for every £200 spent.
So even if we can use a magical (and likely to be illegal) chip to make our payment implant, the combination of both of those laws in the UK would prevent any approach from working.
I might have simplified it a bit in favour of comprehensiveness, but the gist is that.
Much Better is one of those Payment FOB providers.
They are great, and they have an app behind them that handles all the virtualization.
But they are still required to issue FOBs with a readonly memset with a Token that has an expiry date.
That’s completely arbitrary but required from the providers (Visa/Mastercard/etc)
They expire within 3 years of issuance, but might be extended to 5 years if you’re a VIP to the eyes of Visa.
Regardless, because of recent changes in UK law, you are required to log into their app before reaching every £200 spent.
Yes, it can be converted, but would still have an expiry date, and you would still have to carry your phone with you.
Hurray for UK financial law!
thats fucked, like come on. im sure, someone would be able to take it congress in a few years when gen z is incharge and have it changed to allow for implants to be added as an exception on that list. how ever, you would be responsible if it get broken or dosent work, or whatevere, like normal.
gen z as studys are more likly to implant their payment device inside of their hand for lack of loss and privacy reasons. then they are to carry arround x amount of credit cards.
i under stand the security issues behind it all as i do alot of coding and security coding for my games. as well as PAYMENT ! but over all, the uk payment law is just stupidly over kill. its also really OUTDATED! they leave basicaly little to no room for inovation and ontop of that if we wanted to explore other methods of payment, people like visa and mastercard make it hard for us to partner with them so that product would be basicaly useless if a single person tried to make it as most payment companys would say “piss off, we dont want you here” so its not even like we can do it ourself. the only real way i can see this changing is the entire biohacking comunity banding together and makeing a change, its allowed in the uk, its allowed in the eu, but not the uk ? WHY!!!
like heres the issue. they allow keyfobs, but, its just an addon from the base card that YOU STILL HAVE TO USE ANYWAY. the rings, its the same issue. to me it seems like they are basicaly forcing us into useing one absolout payment method, just like they are trying to get rid of physical money.
anyway, rant over. ill have a think about it and maybe me and some of my engineering friends can get together to think of a way arround it, haha, who knows maybe in a few years time we will come up with something that will shake the entire endustry to the ground XD ( i doubt it) anyway, thanks for the update. talk later.
send in your debit/credit card for a custom conversion
Both Dangerous Things (USA) & KSEC Solutions (UK) do card conversions
You should be able to freeze your card from your banking app until you receive the custom implant back
thanks for replying, i know that i can do that, but they request a mini card, hardly any banks here in the uk do mini cards and then ontop of that theres the expiary date, i have an idea on how to takel both of these issues, and make a implant that dosent need to be replaced, ive just send off an idea document to my enginerring mate whos gonna take a look at it today, if they dont see any issues with the idea then i mean… i might be devloping a solution for people within the uk ( possible expantion out to other countries as well, but sticking with in the uk for now)
well i’m excited to see what’s in store, hopefully all goes well
i’m also working on my own design for payment implants for canadians but will most likely only be for myself
oh wow, ok, hows that going? going well? i personly find that everywhere outside of the uk has fairly lax laws when it comes to payments, the issues i will have to face over the course of the project could ether get better or worse depending on where the government takes it, but if i can get this done before that happens. then maybe, just maybe. ill be allowed to keep it and with enough backing maybe we can get it changed. ill be looking in to working with banks and other companys to work with. and we will see. hope yours works out and maybe if we both have a break through maybe we can partner up.
mine’s just debit/credit card conversions right now, still trying to get access to biopolymer, the coating i have now is wayyyy too stiff
I get your rant.
Current scenario is ridiculous and outdated…
But that’s what we have in store at the moment. So we can take our learnings from that and make something about it!
Almost like that would make them a lot more money, right?
Just taking this as an opportunity for clarity:
Expiry dates run from issue date. Freezing a card wouldn’t change it.
I would say the biopolymer is the last of your concerns. (as in literally the last step).
If you get an implant which can effectively work with no expiry date, we can solve that part for you!
The real challenge is to get something which can:
- work exclusively via contactless
- be passively powered (NFC)
- be accepted in Visa/Mastercard networks
- never expire
First step is to come up with something, anything, which solves all these issues. Miniaturizing is easier. Coating in biopolymer is a given.
That said, this forum is full of very clever people who are able to offer good input to help you.
Sharing and going technical might turn out to your own benefit.
The freezing part was meant to be “they cant use your card while they convert it”
as the whole expiry date thing goes: i like doing surgery on myself, i train medical students so switching an implant every 4 years doesnt bother me at all
im just stuck on the coating, ive tried Atom Adhesives FDA18 but its too stiff, works fine for my magnet implant (being implanted soon) but wouldnt work for my payment implant
ive shared in the Slack group, not here though
Assumed so, but given the context on the previous posts it could be misinterpreted, so was a good opportunity to make sure things were clear (for someone parachuting here).
Given this particular Thread’s context, I was hoping one of you two would be pushing for a new type of implant!
Payment conversions aren’t a huge possibility here in the UK. Most the avenues we had are either blocked by the new changes in law or hate the notion of implants…
And there are avenues for making a new type of payment device. Just avenues that require a LOT of effort and money to be set in place (but which would return a lot of money as well)
i will say this about the idea, it isnt going to be a case of needing to make a new card or anything like that, the basic premis of the idea is to use the same tech companys have been useing for year, that i hope ( havent done alot of research yet) i can edit and make into a reuseable card a bit like a man in the middel. but as an implant… its weird, there are compantys that let you merge all your card into one easy to use card that allows you to change what card is in use at what time. without the need or scanning on reading the physical one. the only thing i can see with that is. every card would still have an expiary, youd still need to carry the physical card on you due to the chip and pin issue, but it would allow you just to carry it, instead of needing to take it out every god dam time, this way i tick all the boxes that mastercard/visa want all while being able to convert it all down into a small formfactor that i can put into an implant… well… at least this is the running theroy of it all, there is a long road ahead, lots of research by me and my enginerring friends to see if it can be done, and if it can be done then think of it this way. sure, it might not be everything we want out of the implant, but its a step in the right direction, so if it get popular enough we might be able to invoke a change in that rule, just like in the usa, that way it would allow us to hop back into that market and get better tech, so in the long term even if this secondery plan for the rule change dosent work, atleast we will still have a way to make the god dam things work. onnop of this, if it works within the uk, it “SHOULD” work within other countiers too as all the implant is doing is reciteing the information the normal card would give the POS system.
tldr: its a man in the middel, its funcinal, but its not gonna be what everyone hopes and dreams for unless we force a rule change.
this si very true, but as a game dev, my development would be slow, but i plan on makeing getting a fundraiser together one i prove that the idea should work. i have the people to get it done, altho we are fairly new to the implant scene, but over all it can be done by the team i have.
There are two ways I can see this being feasible.
A: Virtual: you make a payment system. Just like making a new app able to issue virtual cards. This requires you to register with Financial regulators, etc… It’s expensive and takes a LOT of effort, but will pay dividends in the end
B: Hardware: You make a credit card cloning chip. As in… if your device is able to work on your card, it would also be able to work on ANY card. which means you could just be tossing your shopping bills to any random stranger you can swipe the card. That device would sell for quite an insane high price on the black market. So high you wouldn’t need an implant anymore!
Those companies do that at the virtual level.
The simplest approach used is:
They are their own payment system, registered to Financial regulators and all.
When you use their service, you are actually using a virtual card they create for you, and then they charge it from your card.
a chip implant would not be compliant with that system because that’s all done online. And because they are registered, to issue a payment FOB, they need to use a specific type of chip with read only Tokens issued by Visa/Mastercard, which means their implant would still have an expiry date.
Just don’t forget one thing:
Making a chip that can perform payments: Easy
Making a chip that can have updateable tokens: Easy
Making a chip that points to a man in the middle app: Easy
Any of these steps, alone, would be enough to get a payment chip working.
But… then you want to be able to pay when you go to Tesco, or Lidl, or any other place, right?
So… it needs to be recognised and accepted by Visa’s payment network. Because they do have a practical monopoly.
And they are the ones who put massive blockers such as demanding that whatever is your payment system, the tokens must be set at a read only block, issued by them, and be set at factory level. or other hurdles.
So… just because you can make a payment chip, doesn’t mean necessarily you will be able to use it to make payments on shops.
Just saying this here because your first step might need to be:
- check what Visa/Mastercard/etc require from my new project
and only then:
- check what I need to make a payment chip… that conforms with their demands.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but I have a feeling you’re trying to resolve the technical issues (how can I take/make payments) without first looking at the practical issues (what is needed from a system to be able to be accepted at a cashier anywhere), which are the real blocker.
There is a credit card spoofing tool, it’s the Magspoof V3
You could just implant that and use NFC to power it instead of a battery but i haven’t used one yet (always out of stock) so i don’t know its potential
As for the Visa network thing: yeah that’s a huge problem without capital, they basically own everything
one of the ideas i had was implanting a pi zero w v2 and running androids google wallet on it with an NFC antenna for payments and VNC to update the card number
Do you know how much power you could get the Pi zero W down to? Because if it’s too much to be powered via the NFC from a reader you would need a separate power source like Qi, which would require a separate device, which would seem silly when you could just have Google wallet on the device.
If you could get it low enough power though that would be cool. I’d be willing to help make it work on a less bulky PCB with a lower power processor.