Being kept on the fence

Hi there
so this will be partly my journey and questions that I still have after the years.

So I am looking at biohacking for couple of years I got proxmark, quite some cards uid changable and not and even my latest acquisition couple of vivokey demo cards.

I got into situation that there is really no good way to get out, I was and still am waiting to make bigger purchase on implants itself. I got interested in apex at P60 stage as openPGP cards owner and java card enthusiast kinda looked as most interesting implant, I understand that the hw development of something security related intended for implantation isn’t easy but even small info about what are you facing in development can make a big change.

On top of that I am searching for Mifire 4k magic implant because I have 3 different access control IDs and each is different one is Mifire 1k one is MIfire 4k and one t5577 so two are OK but the 4k magic Mifire is hard and quite expensive to get even as a card so I do not expect it as implant any time soon.

So I was thinking about getting NExT, Mifire 1k magic and xSIID and maybe xLED just for some flashy fun, but I got interested in magnets but after some research time I got quite worried about expected lifetime 5y and not so small possibility of scar tissue from removal causing decreased sensitivity got me quite worried as I wanted sensing magnet.

So for the questions is there anything that can be said as to state of apex either flex or max? I know about the ring but as I am in EU the biggest investment for me will be dealing with customs and time required there so I am interested in getting as much in one package as I can.

What are your experiences with magnet strength decay and removal and replacement?

What are your experiences with removal x series vs flex?

What are your experiences with interference between magnets and chips?

Recently I have read studies MRI effects on cochlear implant, they don’t seem to have the same strength magnets but they have higher mass magnets so maybe there is something as the studies are saying that majority of the subjects are able to take MRI with bracing even if it is more uncomfortable than usually.
Does anyone have any experiences with using braces or splints to secure magnets while in MRI?

What are experiences in placement of x series outside of hand into the arm?
What are your experiences when it comes to placement of multiple implants?
I kinda plan everything in advance xG3 v1 would go to my ring finger and v2 would go to the knife edge of the left hand so I keep both magnets on one hand. xLED would have uncertain position on top of the left hand or in the left arm. xSIID would go to the webbing between thumb and index finger on left hand. NExT and 1K Mifire would go on top of the right hand and apex flex or max on inside of right hand so it can be rested on reader while using mouse and second max as backup either in webbing of right hand or inside of the other arm.

The biggest boundary for me is import of the shipment as implantation in span of weeks or months isn’t big problem to me I have both one unofficial body modders from UNI that specialize in chip implantation and here referenced tattoo & piercing shop nearby.

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I’ve done 2 magnets , a xg3 v1 and a v2 magnet
Both with the intention to be used as a lifting magnet… for small screws abs odds and ends
Sensing is definitely not a thing

Both were kinda failures :-/ … I found that the skin and fascia(or at least mine) in the arm is significantly thicker… which means the magnet doesn’t get to the point where it can pull very strong enough that anything could be trusted to not fall off if I sneezed or coughed wrong

I also have 3 chip implants in my arm, a next in my wrist, a xNT and a spark 2 on the underside of my forearm, all 3 are usable, but the spark 2 is pretty picky on read range and location… idk if this is from the chip itself or the thicker skin as mentioned

I have I think 10 or 11 at the moment all in my left hand / arm

For x series, just think through so alike frequencies aren’t right next to each other… try to make a road map for the future… and pay attention to implant location in regards to how you will present it to a reader

The one below my thumb or in the webbing of my thumb presents very naturally to my laptops usb reader… but would be super awkward to present to a wall reader
The implant on my knife edge(ish) of hand presents great to readers on a wall… but would be awkward for a laptop mounted reader

If you’re going to do multiple x series, just implant them all at the same time,
Healing time is the same between 1 and 6, at least in my case…
It will be far easier to schedule, and probably cheaper as the installer usually gives a price break since he’s already setup and prepped… it only adds a few more minutes per install

Can’t speak to finger magnets as I haven’t done that yet,
But in general the magnets you can get from DT currently should not experience decay
In general magnets only get weaker if they corrode
(Now sealed in glass and laser welded titanium)
Or if they get heated to a point where they loose their magnetism… such as an autoclave

Old magnets had coatings that failed eventually, and the magnets would corrode and break down,

But also… I think I remember reading that the actual sensation seems to dull with time, not the magnet itself

As far as removal, I’ve only have 1 removed… the v1 magnet from my forearm… took the piercer like 10 seconds… and was about the same pain as an install

Flex’s Will be a bit more involved to remove, but still isn’t a huge deal

I think I hit all the points I can speak to with my experience


Yeah I was thinking about getting RFID ones there especially apex when it comes as wireless java cards are kinda sketchy especially when making any task that takes some time as key generation would be pretty bad thing to do if you couldn’t rest it on reader comfortably as movement can induce read errors when pc keeps checking on progress of key generation.

That will depend if I go on UNI group where price is quite cheap but we are limited by time we can spend in one sitting and there will be others on the meetups or tattoo shop which is more expensive but there is little to no time limit and on to they are partner so that is also up for them.

That will be a lot dependent on actual quality, N52 means that it is uncategorized and as such should be in working condition under 80 °C which is easily achievable in sauna sure it is temperature of the air but I am unsure how much the heat penetrate the skin and how much it would affect the their power.

Overall thanks for writing about your experiences.

Sauna is no problem, the skin gets barely above 40.
If your skin would reach a temperature anywhere near the critical temperature of a magnet, the magnet loosing it’s magnetism isn’t a problem anymore


Yeah overall but I am worried about local heat spikes as finger magnets doesn’t have that much mass around them to disperse heat as rest of the body. So my thoughts have gone towards fingers nor knife edge aren’t that sweat heavy areas as palm for example and the metal requires way less energy to heat up than water which is most of the rest of our body. But if you have repeated experience with 120°C sauna I wont be against your experience.

Didn’t @anon3825968 do some sauna test using an xBT or something?


Yes, but the body will keep the temperature of the magnet in check. After all, it will be inside of you and not on the bench.

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The medically defined term for both is

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy

I have removed 1 x xSeries 2 x Flex
Simple locate - incision - push/pull - done


Ok that is quite good read.

Interesting I was lead to believe that flex will be worse to remove.

The incision is ~twice the size for Flex, but the Flex also slid out easier, in my experience anyway

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Here is Amals post, with some more info

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So after years of waiting I chose to make the purchase and few weeks after I get to know that soon™ might be soon™er than I thought after so long. So here we go.


What did you go with?

NExT and xSIID and I still have some left to install.

So the L0 started peeling pretty much at least you have picture from that.

2nd day and few hours from implantation wound near to closing.

So I have seen that there is very limited information on xG3 versions at same time.

So I got them.

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Well, the product page is pretty thorough

regardless, getting both was a good choice :+1:

Yeah but I can tell You that even now I have quite differing experience. V2 seems to work way better with other magnets while V1 with metalic objects.