Gonna come off as aggressive here, so take this as intended and not as it sounds - too late/tired to come at this gently/carefully. Except for the parts where you wade into full on transphobia by basically making your argument “It’s gross to me.” And sorry this is long, but there’s no short way to respond.
First, check the language, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of trans issues. Do some reading, or ask questions.
Second, if your primary argument is based in lack of function defined solely as reproductive, would your argument be obviated if someone were to be sterile prior to undergoing surgery? Prior to hormones?
Regarding sexual pleasure, not imagination - the body/brain map, which is often thought to be responsible for body dysmorphia like the desire to have a functional limb removed. Some suggest the same mechanism is at work in trans folks, but it is unlikely given the broader variations on gender we see, and similar emotional responses.
When I had my surgery (I’m a full six speed trans here), I had very little trouble with my sexual pleasure afterwards, and generally with modern techniques, supportive therapy and partners, and a few other things, that’s overwhelmingly the story among us. If you’re getting your ideas from the 70s or from detransitioners, more often than not you’re getting tainted second hand information written in a manner to be discouraging and disinformational.
This is literally already the process though? Like, exactly? Word for word, line for line? Look up the WPATH standards of care.
…You’re a libertarian, aren’t you? Look - where does this end? If you don’t work with power tools for a living and aren’t a trained professional, should you be held accountable when your table saw comes up for a kiss because your concentration slipped, or you were doing your best Colin Furze and wearing a tie? Like, we like to talk a big game about personal responsibility but that all gets into grey territory real fast, and when you’re bleeding out or need your face reconstructed.
At any rate, while we’re on the topic, how do you feel about little blue pills? Men as they age NATURALLY lose testosterone, yet it’s commonly accepted that society pays for their boners (in, like, literally every way). If you’re opposed to paying for unnatural things, are you opposed to this too?
PS - In case we’re suggesting in this that transition care isn’t medically necessary, every actual (real) medical and psychological association have all agreed it is absolutely a genuine medical condition, regardless of where it comes from, and that the sole treatment for it is supportive transition. Note this does NOT include gender identity crises from things like a Borderline Personality Disorder, which respond to traditional psychological care.
To an extent this is true, but the counter to that is in the fundamentals of harm reduction, which is “Dead addicts don’t recover.” So while I wholly agree that some reeking junkie on the subway is repulsive and “got themselves there,” unfortunately we actually don’t know what led them here, and they deserve the chance to recover from that. Everyone does.
Remember back in the 40s when part of European society decided that certain people shouldn’t live among it? (Or like all of American history when it comes to black and Native peoples?) Society is fucking terrible at judging value of human life and wellbeing. Maybe society shouldn’t be the sole arbiter, but instead basic morality and a common sense of the best for everyone should instead guide society?
What they see themselves as being is not relevant. And given the very real detriment they face especially in contrast of modern care for trans health considerations, this is a false equivalence. Transgender folks are up to 1% of the population. In fact, until the aforementioned angry guys from the 40s came around, there was a vast library documenting the existence of gender variance from cultures around the world.
Here here.
And here it comes, the real argument. Might I add “YIKES.”
Yet I assume you would argue something else when it comes to guns, fast motor vehicles, and whatever else you’ve rationalized.
Accessibility should NOT be dependent on charity and individuals. This should be an assumed right with all the money boner pills and boondoggle fighter jets get thrown at them. See before about society’s priorities.
This boils down to the societal norms and pressures put upon someone. In any free society where this was not considered a bog standard part of being a woman, essentially no woman would “want” this to happen (barring literally a couple in the same boat as the wannabe amputees), and when the knowledge and understanding of it and the genuine concept of freedom of choice is denied her, then yes, she cannot possibly consent. It’s no different from a child growing up in a cult being told it’s time to marry the leader. You simply cannot consent - consent in the face of a lack of understanding is never consent.
It’s worth understanding that FGM genuinely fucks your body up though, it’s not merely removing some nerves, it’s often destroying other parts of the vagina, such as removal of the vulva and labia, which often inhibits natural lubrication and results in lifelong pain and heightened infection risk, and not just from sex. It’s a ghastly procedure. Ergo, the likelihood of anyone genuinely and willfully consenting is effectively nil.
What’s funny about that is how the idea of circumcision is the acceptance of the covenant with G-d, and since an infant cannot possibly accept such a thing (see consent above), I firmly oppose it despite being Jewish and having formerly been circumcised myself as a baby, and suffering no known ill effects. But I think it should be an adult item, and I think in today’s world it would die out immediately if it weren’t forced upon children (especially in the way it’s done in some of the insular communities).
Anyway, that’s my batshit long diatribe, but I think it’s largely coherent for having taken an absurd amount of time arguing against the same misinformed ideas in today’s society as we had 50 years ago.
You came up with a good idea, but it’s not your job to lay out the whole plan. It’s just important to keep talking and thinking about it all.
All I said was that the baby-making and fun-making machinery is messed up. If trans folks are too thin-skinned to hear that simple truth, quite frankly it’s their problem.