“scientists” is also incredibly broad by nature, consisting of a large amount of individuals, with widely different opinions on ethics. As mentioned, at my university there are several professors doing research in this area, and they all have varying opinions, but none of them have the opinion of just “no”. There is still research being done, albeit more in some countries than others. Regardless, health improvement studies are going to be done somewhere, there’s no stopping that.
It isn’t about “good” or “ideal”. In terms of capability and physique, there is such thing as “stock human”. The max humans can achieve with a natural birth.
You can fix health without touching other traits. Don’t make someone stronger, but sure, make sure the child doesn’t have an extra chromosome. Ignoring human suffering because of fear of going too far is silly in my opinion, and it’s shortsighted to an extent.
Genetic modification of humans is inevitable. Make sure it’s done right, and done ethically. If we try and ban it out of fear, whoever decides to disobey that ban won’t give a shit about any ethics at all. They’re going to go as hard as they can. This is my concern about what China is doing. They’re already genetically modifying children in the womb. If we keep ignoring issues and enact strict bans, not only are we going to be behind in the west, but we won’t have a say in how it’s done, and then it might actually be used for racist reasons, or to make another group physically superior.
It’s a concerning topic, but not one that can be shoved out of sight because we don’t like it.
Nah mang, designer babies would be wrong and super unpossible because God (our Lord and savior) created infirmity for a good raisin. He(!) wanted us to suffer eternally and never be allowed to progress as a species, to test our faith!!
But I think it is usually a bad idea to ban science, or parts of it, because of fear. No longer using parts of science because it was disproven is fine and happens frequently as science evolves, but to say “nah, we don’t touch this topic anymore, no matter how promising it might be, because it might be abused, or was in the past” is not the usual approach
I think there are two simple facts about eugenics - it has the potential to help lots of people and prevent diseases, and it has the potential to be used for really bad stuff as well (and was, in the past). Similar to tons of other fields of science…
I always loved that argumentation when I had discussions about suffering and such^^
So, people basically said that the god they worshipped was an a-hole
(Not saying he/she/it is, for I’m not religious at all, but that argumentation is strange even for most religious people)
When @amal launched the gofundme crowdfunding campaign for CoT, I registered a domain “transhumanism.church” and currently it’s website https://transhumanism.church/ is only a redirect to the gofundme page
I feel the same. I consider myself an atheist too, but I would join a church of transhumanism. Not because of any benefit it might give me legally or otherwise, but for the resources it may hold, and knowledge and the community.
On another hand, I do have beliefs of what happens after physical death, but I don’t consider them spiritual but scientific.
The whole universe theory, the science teaches us that matter is not created or destroyed, it transforms. So why should our mind and consciousness just disappear? I believe in the survival of the mind beyond physical death. And I believe some day we will find a way to transfer that mind into a device to keep our mind alive while changing body. There’s several shows and movies about it too haha.
I do hold a special grudge against religion in general though. I was raised in a Catholic home, and I went to a Catholic School and Catholic High school, so I’ve had a lot of religion bullshit forced into my mind. I have also been forced to believe the first science fiction book known by humanity, the bible. And I find ridiculous that so many people believe as it were facts.
I don’t go about worshipping Philip K Dick books as they were fact. Would be perceived as delusional or plain stupid if I did… So why nobody appears to be bothered by those who worship the bible?
Nah, I don’t know, I usually just stay clear of religion because it’s just way too close to trauma to me. But Church of Transhumanism I kinda dig. In a cultural, community, learning and support group kinda way, I don’t see reason on using the word church though.
Me neither! I’m all in for that hahaha. I believe it was Stephen Hawkins who was working on that, researching the matter before he passed. Never got an update on it really. But I so wish we could do that
I honestly do not doubt we will get there, and much sooner than we expect.
Ultimately, the brain is just a super computer. If we can devise a “hardware neural network” efficient enough (which we are pretty close to achieving), and then if we can map all the synapses of a human brain at each instant…
Theoretically we could “dd” (or clone/upload/etc) our “meatey brain” state into a “computey brain”…
(spoiler alert for this link!)
Now, when that happens, we are left with the great Prestige question:
Would we be “uploading ourselves”, or just cloning our conscience and then having to kill ourselves so that our clone continues in our wake?
In which case… Are we really transporting our mind?
In Altered Carbon they show the disc which is implanted in the base of the head to all babies when they are born, and your consciousness gets copied, so if you get killed or die of natural causes, that disc can be extracted and will have your last “saved data” to your new “sleeve” meaning your new body. Which it’s a cloned human.
The richer get the handsomest and more athletic sleeves of course… and their data can be uploaded to a personal satellite so can’t be hacked or tampered with, or in case your killer destroyed your disc on purpose.
I just wish that was something I could see in my lifetime. Maybe not the sleeves and stuff but to store my mind or install it on another vehicle.
Even in Altered Carbon there is still that same question.
They “solve” it by “outlawing double sleeving”, but you do have examples where individuals download their conscience into multiple sleeves. Thus effectively making copies of you.
Which bodes the question… which one is you?
In the case that we die, then wake up from our previously “saved” point, in a new sleeve, or new vehicle, it is easy to estabilish continuity… but is it really continuity?
The new you will feel like it’s you. but the old you would still just have died.
Because if the new you is re-sleeved while the old you still lives, the new you will still feel like you.
But the current you will feel like the new you is a different person.
I really like how that universe tackles this topic!
IMO, there’s no continuity in either scenario, so the original you still dies completely, and a clone of you continues living with your same memories, unaware that it’s a clone.
Also, this thread made me FINALLY start watching Altered Carbon been considering watching it for ages, but put it off til now. On episode 1
I’ve read some of the plot though (I like to read the lore of a ton of shows), so I’m familiar with the basics of the story.
Although here it becomes much easier to argue that there is still continuity (even if just to lie to ourselves), because there is no instance of a doubly transported person.
If that duplication would be possible, then would become the exact same scenario.
Although I particularly enjoy this point exactly because how “natural” it feels to think first that there will be continuity… and only then question it!
You won’t regret!
S1 is insanely good!
S2 is still great, but very underwhelming in comparison to S1 (as most series are)
the Anime… let’s pretend that never existed, shall we? It just butchers the main character’s original personalities and the storyline has more holes than swiss cheese in a Bacchanal!
When I wrote my last post I thought: “I am sure that Star Treck will have explored it at some point… I mean, they pretty much explored everything one can think of!! ah, well, my argument will still be valid for “generic tele-transport fiction” anyway”
The altered carbon universe books are the same story as the show? I feel like I’m finishing all good (edit:scifi) /cyberpunk universe books, movies, games and shows
There seem to be a consent about a few things so far:
•Some religious fundamentalists make other people’s life miserable
•People need a modern approach to faith
•Most of you would like their “consciousness” kept preserved – I interpret it as a form of death denial (argue me!)
I started to work on a piece of writing (surprisingly, this time without South Park gifs), a thought experiment to find out wether a “proper” of a “phony” church would be feasible on the long term.
I put it on the back burner for now. I seriously started to question the legitimacy or longevity of any idea that possesses me and wether or not they should be inherited in the form of a (yet unexplained) belief system.
Also I think the Average Joe is not competent enough (including myself) to foresee how an idea will be viewed in x years, especially from a theological perspective.
Think the worst possible outcome. Then multiply by 2… add a dash of stupidity and 3 onces of Greed…
…and Voila!! you got your result!
Nah, jokes aside, I think you got some great points there!
Most important imho is that one!
One of the core differences between science and religion is that whilst Science not only accepts but also encourages a shift in paradigm, religion usually does the exact opposite.
Institutions led by people who have something to gain from leading it (especially when that ‘something’ is ‘prestige’) will also tend to crystalise the status quo, so they can keep prestige for longer. Not 100% of cases, but a fairly high number for sure!
This might not be an issue inherent to religion, depending on how you phrase it, but certainly is with churches.
By the very nature of Transhumanism, we would be shifting paradigms and changing so much of what we believe, and that would split into so many views and paths… that having any tiny bit of a chance of cristalisation is already enough to give me the shivers!
Take for example “dietaryhacking”… so many people already feel triggered by that… Can’t see this getting any better once you get any sort of “voice of authority” in the middle.
ps: this is talking broadly, not about anyone’s particular approach.
been considering watching it for ages, but put it off til now. On episode 1 
one!