Just because it’s not a real church doesn’t mean it can’t be a great organization with real achievable goals and proper governance. Don’t conflate the form and the function.
I said it would never be taken seriously… and that it’s potentially worst if it is taken seriously.
Also… If you want to take things seriously, you must take into account the consequences of every aspect of it.
So I can hardly see a serious organisation taking an “easy exit”, such as “claiming to be a church” when there are more effective routes available, as being a transnational NGO instead.
I’m not sure what you read in what I post, but it ain’t what I post.
If you’re main qualm is that the organization would pose as a church for cynical reasons, and that would affect its credibility, don’t worry about that: it’s a duck church in the eyes of the law - meaning it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, so it must be a duck. That doesn’t mean it’s a real duck.
And nobody is fooled by the legal duck, or offended that it poses as a duck. Everybody knows a legal church in the US is either a real church trying to get even richer on the back of the taxpayers, or a clever interest group trying to maximize its potential.
Sorry if I lack your faith in humankind. But I do expect the worst from collectives of people whilst I am planning something.
I mean… I could dress up the Polyanna mask and be a happy optimistic!! but then what’s the point of even bothering to plan anything?
That wacko form would seriously impact the function, by making it harder for the function to be exerted, given that now the ones who need to engage with it would not take it seriously, because of the chosen form.
I might remind you that you’re talking about people who elected Trump as president. If you think stuff doesn’t fly in the US just because it’s wacko, pay a bit more attention to the country prepare to be amazed
The interesting point is in the uk you dont have to be a church just a belief system / support group from that you can claim charitable status. This gives a level of protection but so does just having a belief system i.e. climate change is real
Also, one way or another NGOs can reach the same level of benefits as any church, even in US.
The only thing a church status grants that an NGO does not, is to allow for “religious rituals” not to be interfered with.
But then, by claiming that implanting a chip is a religious ritual, there is a strong chance that implanting of chips will become even more regulated, and only “church personel” is allowed to perform that in certain places/contexts…
Thus making it even harder for other people to get their implants in US
Maybe it takes the discussion off the rail a bit, maybe I’m repeating myself:
May I sum up my very own point?
• I want an organisation that protects me from the mark-of-the-beast morons
• I understand that I need to chip in some to keep the ball rolling
• I -as an artist- can help bringing events under to roof to raise attention / money
• Once there is a budget I would like a hack-space to be funded that can answer questions, such as t̶e̶a̶s̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶l̶a̶n̶t̶ a way to glow-in-dark.
• Maybe events that was polled b4. A cyborg-gig (intentionally used the term cyborg because of Rosco)
• I personally want to give support if I can see this for those who need it
It’s a hell-of a list, but these are reasonable wishes…I hope.
I’m no decision maker by any means, all I can suggest is to reach the minimum requirements to be registered as a church first.
Once that’s done (USA) we should discuss possible regional specifications, aka how to eat bats on stage in Germany or whatnot. LOL, if only it was this easy. And I 100% understand that:
Freedom to “do” (install) implants is not the goal, it’s to be able to have an implant installed, either through an otherwise legal installation procedure by a legally authorized person. If that has to be done as part of a ritual, then so be it… but the legal ability to even have an implant installed is what would be argued by the church.
Some states is the crux here because it’s only some states that have laws against rfid implants, and it just so happens most of those states also lean heavily on religious freedom laws enacted in their states… coincidence? Maybe… but the growth of religious freedom law seems to be geographically tracking anti-rfid law nearly exactly… it’s like a religious goblin with two heads, and the church is the only way to turn one head against the other in those states.
This is the only reason at all the idea of a church came about… for everything else an NGO makes perfect sense.
So, no reason to explore a church organization outside the USA… let’s make an NGO with a suborg as a church in the USA.
And is that reason enough to bring a spotlight on top of the whole biohack scene?
To risk reducing drastically the availability of installers everywhere else in US?
Whomever lives on those illegal states can still drive a couple of hours and get it done in another state. Not Ideal, but it’s already doable.
Would making a mockery of Transhumanism, tying it to an “obviously fake church, designed to take advantage of broken laws” (Rosco’s words), be worth saving some people a couple galons of gas?
An NGO could even offer to help bring people out of the state to perform the procedures. much simpler and cleaner.
I am afraid whatever NGO might need to actually place itself against a church, in case the phony church becomes a joke like FSM, Scientology, etc… least the whole NGO suffers a credibility hit worldwide.
To hide in the dark, cowering in the shadows … that is no way to improve humanity.
Explain again how this would lead to wide spread reduction of installation options? States that enact anti-rfid laws wipe that entire state of installation options, even medical doctors… outside those states, nobody is going to pay any more attention to a small new church organization battling anti-rfid chip laws in a few southeastern states than has already been paid to me (and others) for the last 15+ years.
And that’s the point why I don’t get it. It’s a problem in some states, yeah, but not even in all of the US… so you can even decide to live in a more open-minded state without any problems?
Poking a worldwide beehive because of a few US states might also not be the best way to improve anything. Bodymodding is not cowering in the shadows, it never really was - but it is a legally grey area that’s only fine as long as people don’t try to “improve” things by statements like
that basically excludes all installers we had before…
You say yourself that you don’t care who does the installation - be it a surgeon or a bodmod-artist. So, if the government has to decide on that point, given those two choices, what do you think will happen?
Of course no bodmod artist ever would be allowed to do an install again. And this will have worldwide impact - believe me, people here are already nervous because of the shit going on in the UK. And that’s what worries me a lot. You already recommend “surgeons” for the Walletmor implantation, so you don’t seem to be that happy with modders doing those installs.
edit: Just one straight question - why not start with the stuff I recommended before, working together with other groups, setting up a solid ground for artists and surgeons to work on, and afterwards make it a religious right to get your implant?
Hence why I am in favour of doing things to get this better!
Just one of many possible timelines of events:
Church is created. installation of rfid becomes allowed under a church’s appointed ritual. > a tiny amount of religious piercers US-wide stop doing it in protest.
other people begin to jump on the train that this church opens. We begin to have more complex shit being done by unskilled people trying to hide under the umbrella of your church. They might even be wrong. They may be twisting the church’s creed. It does not matter…
One of those complex shit things goes terribly wrong, gains media attention and goes viral. Now all the shit hitting the fan is waving pretty little CoT flags.
a religious zealot congressman decides to fight against this heretic church, so he presses too hard against it. Media turns all that into a PR shitstorm.
Religious fanatic congressman and lawmakers US-wide jump on that train.
their retaliation against a church comes in the form of stricter laws against those implants.
those laws are pressed by more of the oposing churches congressmen in other states. > now it’s even harder to get installers US-wide
You are not offensive to other faiths with zealot lobbyists.
A new church would be.
I mean, that’s quite a leap you’re taking with the escalation… the church would define their “ritual” as to include rfid chip implants but not tongue splits… for example.
Hah possibly, but honestly with all the accusations of devil worship and death threats I’ve gotten … it might be a slight escalation… who knows.
All of this has just reconfirmed I don’t have time for this… better to just plow ahead as a standard for profit corporation and keep growing until I can afford to buy my senators like everyone else does. If there is one religious organization that is universally respected in the USA, it’s the class C corporation
II II II II II II II 
II II II II II II II 
to keep the ball rolling
bats on stage in Germany or whatnot.