Community-driven Biohacking Map

looking really good buddy.

Is there anything we (the community) can do to make it easier for you?

I assume you have read all the posts in this thread!?

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Thanks. I did once back in the day but I’ll go back through it again and incorporate anything I’m missing. So far as help, feedback is always welcome.

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Alrighty, I think I’ve got a grasp on the direction we’re after.

My plan was to basically take Amal’s map and give folks the ability to sign up as partners and mange their own stuff (pending amal’s approval).

What it does:
Uses your IP to guess your location, figures out whether you use freedom or sanity units and sets them accordingly (miles v. kilometers). Partners are sorted by range. If the partner is within 1000 miles or 1500 km, when you open the partner, you also get an estimated travel time. The existing filtering is pretty self-explanatory.

Things I need to add/change:

Account stuff

  • Two types of accounts: partners and biohackers
  • Partners provide (at least) installation services
    • Have a studio
    • Have “official” flags that can be toggled (Dangerous Things, KSEC, …?)
  • Biohackers offer help with NFC/RFID cloning and answer questions
    • Will not have a specific location
  • Accounts will have a keep alive period
    • Option for email reminders

Where did we land on having accounts that are rated for things like professionalism, etc

Events
Do we want to do the whole “official” thing for these as well? IE, DT endorses said event?

Anything I’m missing?

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I think this would be a good idea, with a standard set of details

Name:
Location/ address:
Contact details:

Star Ratings
Professionalism:
Cleanliness:
Price: stars or actuall cost

plus maybe a notes section, for comments or forum links to install post

:man_shrugging: Just my thoughts

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I think some kind of rating would be better than actual costs, for those may vary a bit :wink: Though most piercers I know have some kind of price table for piercings they do, most of the non-standard-stuff is usually not on that, and to be honest, I think many artists decide upon the price more or less “spontaneously”. Like, the price of my scars was depending on how long Arnulf needed to do them, and he couldn’t tell me beforehand how much it would cost exactly.
Star rating is a bit difficult, though - does 5 stars mean it’s very expensive, or does it mean the price (however high it may be) is totally fine? I know from some pages (I think facebook has that, for example) that they just use currency symbols, with € meaning cheap and €€€ more expensive.

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Good point

That’s good, but also subjective.
What a €€ for some could be €€€€€ for other

Actual cost gives people a known expectation, but as you say, the prices could “spontaneously” given.

There could be discounts for multiple implants.

Even giving a: Fair - Reasonable - Expensive rating is subjective…

Basically :man_shrugging:

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Ah damn, yes - I didn’t consider that this is a world wide map, so you can’t really put prices into relation…
In Germany, I can estimate that a €-piercer might pierce a lobe for 10 or 20 euros, while a €€€-piercer might take 45-50 euros, but I have no clue what a piercer in Brazil might take. Or in the US, or in New Zealand :wink:
That’s definitely an advantage for actual costs…
I’m just afraid that people might look at it, go to the artist and say “hey, I saw you make an install for price xy”, and are disappointed or angry if the price has changed.

Totally - I would always say all my mods are fair priced, but when I take a look at my list of mods and the prices I paid (yeah, I seriously have some sort of chart of all that^^), many people might disagree :smile:

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My 2 cents on the price…

I say do the $ $$ $$$ $$$$ option

And set a known range for each
0-50 50-75 75-100 100-150

Pricing can vary depending on quantity and complexity…

But I think setting the $ value based on a simple standard X series in P0 since that’s probably the most common thing

Don’t forget that in general flex and xseries are significantly different prices to so seperate ratings for each would be good

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I agree with the $$ option but I respectfully wouldn’t suggest a range. In my experience the $$ will average out and is simply an expression of comparative cost with other suppliers as opposed to actual costs. Plus prices will unfortunately go up as time goes by, so a comparative may be more helpful??

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You touch on an interesting point about the types of installs. Would it be fair to say that there are three different installation methods: injectable, installable with DT’s custom needle or the like, and scalpel? Even then, I imagine a finger install of a Titan is probably more complicated than say something like a custom flex that requires a scalpel. Has anyone put together a list of prices? I think it would be helpful to see what the breakdown looks like before trying to implement the pricing feature. If not, I suppose we could add that. It could give a rating relative to the global and national averages…

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Would it be possible to add 2 texts fields for standard x series and flexes that go in the in the regular spots like P0-5? I think it could help standardize the cost for installs regionally, plus the installer could leave it blank or enter “call for price” if they don’t want to list prices online.

Standard install prices, call for custom install quotes.
X Series: $40
Flex Series: $150

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I would agree, although in my personal opinion an xSeries and Custom needle procedure are VERY similar.

But then you have complications like, getting 3 xSeries and 2 Flex in one sitting, using the DT installation kit ( drape, gauze, bandage etc ) vs getting a single xSeries and the piercer wants to use their own equipment vs a FlexDisc scalpel Install plus 2 x xSeries vs …

Maybe something like:
INDICITIVE Pricing
xSeries ~$40
Flex ~ $50
Scalpel ~$Unknown

Whatever is decided, Maybe a note to say
"Prices are indicitive only and should be discussed with you peircer individually"

Haha, I just saw Invalid_signal post…so yeah, something like That :arrow_double_up:

Not as far as I am aware, However ,a while back I was going to do just that, but after searching the forum, the Prices can vary A LOT, with no rhyme nor reason :man_shrugging: I seems to just come down to the individual piercer
I’m sure we all have our own ideas on what each procedure SHOULD cost or what is acceptable, but unfortunatley that is not our decision.

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A wrinkle here is that I got two X Series and a Flex in the same visit so that worked out cheaper per implant because there’s always the baseline cost. So I couldn’t say what my installer would charge to do one X Series but I would assume it wouldn’t much less than two or three in the same visit.

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But the listings don’t need to spell out every price

Most new people in search for a piercer are likely looking for a simple x series,

They just need to know a ballpark 59$ for a standard install
(Any installer on the map, is going to do standard x series… I can’t think of what someone would offer flex’s but not x series)

If that price seems reasonable to them, then they can inquire about multiple implant discounts, or flex

If some place has 130$ listed for a standard install, I’m probably going to keep shopping around, and probably not ask about flex’s

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I dig it. Leave it to the partner to list prices or not. For the review portion, there could just be a “pricing was accurate” flag. Or, perhaps, a choice of cheaper, on par, or expensive? Kinda covers unlisted pricing as well… Unless they are the only partners in the area.

Thoughts, folks?

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Not neccessarily… I had both done by the same artist, and while the flexy took some good time with scalpel, dermal elevators, 9 stitches and all that stuff, the Titan in my fingertip was installed in about 5 minutes with just one single stitch. Thus, the flexy install was a bit more expensive, though not much.

Absolutely. But I think you can get a general “feeling” of that - like, a studio that has the reputation of being a bit more expensive usually is so with implants as well, while others who do “basic stuff” for less money usually take less for “advanced stuff” as well, or is my gut feeling wrong here?
Though I have to admit, I’m bad at comparing bodmod-prices - this is usually the “unlisted” stuff, so I only know the prices of the artist I visit :wink:

I like the “pricing was accurate”-flag - simply because that’s a totally subjective thing :wink: I can only take my scars as an example - I spent a lot of money on them, but considering how much time it took to get them done plus all the extras I got, I think the pricing was totally accurate. Problem is, most people who start into the world of biohacking (or bodmods) don’t really know what to expect at all… dunno how this can be solved on a map, or if it’s rather something that can be explained better in this forum or something the like.

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Lot’s of changes. Seeing as we had a marker for general biohacking questions and were adding one for nfc/rfid help, I threw one in for biomagnets and suppliers such as DT and KSEC. I added reviews based on the suggestions. If we want reviews for suppliers and the Q&A folk, we’ll need to sort of different metrics.

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Great progress

There is also a great “database” here that may be worth adding if you haven’t already. Europe only, but lots of options

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Glad to see this! I’ve been so spread thin lately I’m well behind on forum posts :frowning:

I only barely scraped through the last dozen or so posts… so let me just brain dump what I’m looking for and we can try to go from there.

  • I would def want to incorporate a community driven map as the official DT map

  • I like the listing types broken down as “modder” (does scalpel work), “installer” (can do needle work, possibly including custom needle flex installs), and biohacker (enthusiast, may not do installs at all but might help)… the last one there is tricky because if we put them on a map and indicate they can do installs, and someone messes up… it could be a liability issue… so if someone is willing to assist with installs, unfortunately it should not be on the map. It would need to come down to making contact and sorting it out directly.

  • I like the idea of new listings needing approval from me before they are made live on the map

  • I like the idea of any submissions requiring an email address, and like craistlist, the submission gets a magic URL… no account names or passwords to manage your listing… just a magic URL you save in your email forever. That gives you the ability to come back and update or even remove your own listing. This is an important management feature to help speed map updates. Once a submission is approved, the OP can update it without further approvals required. If we are unhappy with the submission at any time we can remove it and they would have to re-submit and that new submission would require approval, so this is simple and it should “just work”. Submissions that are not approved cannot be updated until they are approved… that just simplifies things a bit for us as well… so basically flow would go like this; submit your listing, get a magic URL via email, click the magic URL to activate your submission for approval (solves mistyped email problem), this updates the listing to make it visible to me / DT as needing approval, and we can do follow-up etc. and approve it. Once approved maybe an email goes out to the submitter to notify them their listing is approved? I can supply a sendgrid API key for all this email stuff :slight_smile:

  • a simple admin interface for me to manage these listings :slight_smile:

  • information I would like / need for each professional submission includes;

    • professional’s name (person doing installs)
    • shop name (pro must work out of a shop)
    • shop owner’s name (not always a pro owned shop)
    • shop physical address
    • shop main phone number (won’t be listed on the map but used by us for verification)
    • latitude / longitude (based on address API or extract from google maps link which contains LAT/LONG)
    • one or more of professional’s preferred booking contact methods;
      • booking phone number (can be shop number or pro’s own phone number)
      • email address
      • website / facebook / insta / whatever
    • notes to include (shop behind pizza place, or by appointment only or whatever)
  • information I would like / need for each biohacker includes;

    • name
    • general area (city is enough. most people don’t want to put home addresses)
    • preferred contact method (email, phone, twitter, forum DM, etc.)
    • Note about self (do not say “I do installs!” kind of thing)
  • I have a google maps API token I can supply as well if necessary.

  • I would love a heatmap approach when zoomed out to make sure the pins don’t overlap like they do on the current map.

I hope that all makes sense. As for community based comments / reviews, that is a critical feature and I don’t really have any thoughts on how to approach that… but I do want to be able to manage those comments in case things get particularly nasty. We’ve had some situations in the past where I’ve had to straighten things out between customers and partners and it’s come to an equitable end in most cases… but I don’t see that level of diplomacy and positive outcome happening through any kind of “comments section”… so I want to be careful about this feature.

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