Contemplating an implant, I have questions

Lounge
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I wrote to Amal, and he thought this would be a good public topic, so here goes!

I’m trying to learn, but wow this really is a deep pool I jumped in.

14a != Mifare, and there are different Mifares…

My use case is hotel room doors, and my personal bits:

  • what Flipper would call RFID, but what I now know is 125 Khz H10301 (which I think the t5577 can emulate.)
  • What the Flipper calls MIfare Classic 1k ( ISO 14443-3 [ NFC-A] ) and the ChameleonUltra would call Mifare Classic 1k EV1 when reading, but Mifare Classic 2k when assigned in a slot.

I know the xMagic does Mifare bits and LF 125Khz (T5577, I think that could support H10301?)

I know that there are a lot of possible implants (and I’m trying to bring my brain up to speed as fast as I can. )
Here’s what I think I know. (Please correct me or point me to the forum/paper/video to help me understand what is wrong here.)
xEM = LF 125khz bits.
xNT = Ntag 216, which I think is for sharing information like business cards
xDF2 DESFire EV2 8kB NFC = some special mifare special bits that I need to KNOW I want the DESFIRE or I don’t want the DESFIRE.
NExT = a T5577 (LF 125khz) and a HF Ntag 216 (business cards?)
xSLT, xSIID, xHT, different NFC standards that… I don’t fully grok yet.

the difference between the xM1 and xMagic is that the xM1 has only mifare capability and the xMagic has both mifare bits and LF 125khz bits.

The thing that’s having me bang my head against the wall most is that I can’t seem to find any installers in/near my state (VA.)

I don’t have any body mods or tattoos currently, so finding a local place seems…more difficult/nigh impossible, but I can start that process in a bit if other things fall through.

I also noticed that many on the forums were saying that the installer map was inaccurate (I’m also finding some of those things (missing links, I’ll report them soon) but do you do installs? At a Con/Event perhaps? Or are there Cons where this is a reasonable expectation? I’m trying to find a place to have the implant done, but your latest advice is to find the place before you get the implant (on the forums.)

Can I use a proxmark3 (in transit to me, but not here yet.) to put something on the implant before it’s implanted? Is this recommended or not recommended?

(Sorry for all the newbie questions, I promise I looked on the forums for most of this.)

Thank you all for the good information I was able to find in the forums already.

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There’s this in case you missed it

And also big :+1: for doing your research! I’m sure someone here will help you out with the rfid aspects

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Yep, I saw that, it’s a long list, and some of those professions are easier to contact than others. (with greatly varying costs.)

I’m also an introvert, so “let’s contact a bunch of new people and have a whole lot of new social contacts” sounds like more of a nightmare than a positive experience, so hoping to lean on those who’ve already had the process done, and find someone local-ish to use.

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I get that :joy: I found one installer through Facebook and kept going there despite them being quite far. Even if you don’t like direct contact it’s still worth it to send a few messages around and see

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But the recommendation says to go in person…and, in medical things, one doesn’t ignore recommendations unless one has a great understanding of why/how/what you’re ignoring. (and I don’t yet.)

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I can’t speak for much, but I use my NExT T5577 to emulate an H10301 card with no problem. I found some information on this site:

The T5577 chip is an emulator chip that can be programmed to the most common ID card formats in use today. The T5577 can emulate cards that make use of the standard 26-bit Wiegand format. This format is most commonly used with H10301 cards. The T5577 can emulate the H10301 card format as well as the following 26-bit card formats:

HID 1326
ProxCard II
Indala
EM Cards
Kantech XSF
AWID 26-bit, 34-bit, 37-bit and 50-bit
Keri MS
Doorking DK Prox
H10302
Doorking DK Prox
DSX D10202
Farpointe Pyramid
Keyscan C15001 36-bit

Man I feel that. I’ve used the same guy twice now, and even though he’s 3+ hours away, I plan to keep going back because it doesn’t take any extra social energy that finding someone new would.

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3+ hours… from Maryland… (location in your bio)… Pray tell, is that due south? :slight_smile:

And would you mind sharing your guy’s name/shop/location?

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Unfortunately not, I found JR (@ johnrossswitz on instagram) in Bensalem, PA through the Professional Installation Partners - Dangerous Things page after the next closest pin didn’t respond.

Wish I could help you in the VA region :crying_cat_face:

quick edit - there’s nothing wrong with making a whole day out of it, if you find somewhere that’s a little ways off, visit the surrounding city. When I went back for my Titan, I took my friend and we hit up some of the trails while we were there. I’m not advocating for a 6+ hour one-way trip but there’s folks here on the forum that have taken short plane trips to other european countries and back just for an install.

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Agreed

You clearly did, and you did an awesome job.

You have a good grasp, just a few minor details

Yep, with social engineering it is far easier for you to “sell your story” in person, and its far easier for them to turn you down via phonecall or via messaging.

Not to say it cant be done remotely, but just easier in person.

Arm youself with knowledge, which you seem to be quite adept at doing.

Heres some more info for you and your potential installer that may be of use

read https://dangerousthings.com/wp-content/uploads/Introduction-to-Implantable-Transponders-for-Professionals.pdf ?

read https://dangerousthings.com/wp-content/uploads/Professional-Guide-to-2x12mm-transponder-installation.pdf ?

Watch Installation procedure Guide 1

Watch Installation Procedure Guide 2

Watch Needle insertion angle

Im assuming VA is Virginia, so south of Pensylvania.?

Not sure if thats too far for you.
I know where most of your states are but the scale of distance throws me…
Philly is just up the road a little way isn’t it?

Out your driveway and turn left…

Brian Decker in Brooklyn, (no contact details, but he does come highly recommended)
if thats easier for you to fly to NY :man_shrugging:

Anyway, hope that helps

Non American with Non American geographical knowledge shutting up now

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I appreciate your reply. I’ve seen your posts, and I’ve read/watched those. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

VA (Virginia) is south of PA (Pennsylvania) by about a 4.5-6 hour drive depending on location.

Philly to me is ~420 km / 260 mi, about a 4.5 hour journey each way. So it’s probably flyable, but not optimally drive-able. ( Is it safe to fly right after getting implanted? )

This is gonna sound very weird to some, but I’m trying to NOT use any Social Engineering techniques/tools/tactics in this search, as part of those watching don’t yet have enough wisdom to use such techniques/tools/tactics in a knowingly ethical way. (too much has rubbed off accidentally…so now I’m a LOT more careful about what I show.)

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Thanks for the geographic info

maybe wait until AFTER you have had a Philly cheese steak but before getting shot.

But in all seriousness, flying after an implant should be no problem at all.
However, whilst we are on the topic
Everybody is different, so its still worth talking about vasovagal response, it more of an event during than and after, but do consider staying hydrated and what you eat before and after.

Heres a recent discussion (part way through)

not weird at all; and it wont be required at all if you go to a known installer like Brian Decker or @Satur9’s option.

If you get stuck with setup / install, just sing out

i fell like you dont need the links (you probably have them bookmarked)

https://forum.dangerousthings.com/t/handy-dandy-tips-and-tricks/13041/14?u=pilgrimsmaster

Exactly :wink:

You PROBABLY don’t

It sounds like you are looking at the xMagic, which it a great first implant, just like the NExT, it just depends on your use case.
If you cant stretch to it financially, both with have you covered for most things RFID related.

This, Personally, I would reccomend a FlexM1
(i will link a relevant thread at the end)
I know the flex can be intimidating, but they really are worth it, and I fear you would be disappointed with the success rates on hotel doors.
A NExT would complement it nicely, if you were considering an xSeries with an LF chip.

Any questions, fire away

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Yes to being able to fly. No pressure problems and implants too small to set off a metal detector. :+1:

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Highly unlikely if it is an X-Series - Which comes preinstalled in a sterilized syringe. The needle interferes with the signal. I was unable to get a read from my Spark 2 or NExT prior to installation. You may even have a little difficulty AFTER installation as your install site swells. Your body protects injury with fluid, which is also pretty decent at blocking RF. Don’t be discouraged.

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Thank you!

(Also lots of ways to make it past a metal detector if you understand how they work well enough. :slight_smile: )

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This is great to know! Thank you!

Follow-up: How long after implanting should I expect to be able to read/write from/to my implant?

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Damn good question. That will depend on how your body reacts to the install. Different people have had different experiences.

For me, it took a couple of days. Fortunately, I had read the same thing from others on DT forum, so I didn’t even try to remove my bandages for the first couple of days. Not worth the risk of infection if I wasn’t going to get a read. Who knows. I might have been able to get a read on the first day.

You’ll also want to do some playing with it. learn you implant. Mine actually migrated a bit in my hand to a spot that sits well (both hands - webbing between thumb and finger). I find that if I orient my phone just right, I can get a read, but still don’t after a year with a bad angle. I use my NExT to start my car, and if the angle is wrong when I align with the antenna, I don’t get a read.

Just like any part of your body, the more you play with it, the more you’ll learn it - I bet you can close your eyes and still stick your finger up your nose!

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I had to wait about 2 weeks to get reliable reads. I could occasionally get a read at about 4-5 days in but I’d avoid trying to use it for 2 weeks so it can fully encapsulate and heal. I would just avoid playing with it for a week or two because every time you mess with it you break up the scar tissue.

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I have thin, unreactive skin so there’s no swelling to speak of. I get a read immediately but a lot of people here have to wait up to a couple of weeks. Just the luck of the draw.

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Leaving an update here.

I’ve been unsuccessful to find an installer (even a few from the list) that responds to email (a requirement, for reasons that, if you think about disabilities for a hot minute, should be immediately obvious. sigh )

With that, I thank this community for all the knowledge it’s given me, and the opportunity to learn more about RFID.

I ordered a Magic Ring 2.0, and we’ll see how that goes.

If there is a list of bio-hacking events that do implants (that Amal would bless as installers) I’d love any information people may have. Maybe in 2024 I’ll be successful in finding an installer, but for now, I think, sadly, my journey ends.

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I found my installer by searching Instagram for the “subdermal” hashtag and flipping through the results until someone 2 hours from me showed up. There are a lot of piercing places that aren’t comfortable with not being able to sterilize the thing themselves to control their liability, so looking for someone who’s familiar with less mainstream body mods is a good bet. It might take a little while to find someone, and you might have to attend a body mod show/convention to see who’s out there (many of them don’t advertise outside of the body mod community).