FlexDF vs FlexNT What Are The Differences?

I was wondering about the FlexDF what does it do and what are the differences between the FlexDF and the FlexNT? Thanks! :smiley: - BioHacker101

@amal, Hi there I may be wrong but I think your reply got hidden for some reason? :wink:

ah no… i accidentally marked it hidden then unmarked it… i think the question is common enough for me to make a little video at this point… coming soon.

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@amal, Can’t wait! :smiley:

@amal hey did you ever post that video

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hah nope, i’m a terrible person :slight_smile:

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I’m curios also :grin:

ughhghgh… fine… i will dig it up… soon. hahah

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:joy::+1:

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so i see the installation video but did you post anything about the differences? i am interested in getting one just dont know which i should get?

The differences are vast… both are ISO14443A RFID tags… the flexNT uses the NTAG216 chip which is NFC Type 2 and the flexDF uses the DESFire EV1 8K chip, which is NFC Type 4. The flexNT can hold close to 1k of data in a simple memory page schema, while the flexDF can hold up to 8k worth of data in user defined “files”, each of which can have their own 3DES keys with specific permissions defined… or you can just use all 8k to store NDEF data for NFC applications.

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Bump on this thread. I was intending to get an xNT to go along with my xEM (which I totally love), but after doing the research and combing the DT forums I’m pretty well convinced that the range issues aren’t worth it. So now it’s down to a FlexNT or perhaps a FlexDF. The DF, as a Type 4 NFC tag seems to be “better.” Basically seems to do everything that the NT can do, and more.

Is that true, though? Is the FlexDF compatible with everything the FlexNT is, but then also has additional security and writing capabilities as well?

Seems like the forearm is a good place for these flat tags. Maybe I’ll put a Vivokey Spark in my second hand now that the xNT won’t be occupying that space!

ok i lied about the video… no time to do it proper, also i look terrible today…

No, it’s not true. When it comes to RFID devices, nothing is the same as anything else unless it’s the same. An NTAG216 chip is not the same as an Ultralight C chip, though they are very similar… they are both ISO14443A, both NFC Type 2, and both have the same style of 4 bytes per page user memory organization, and they both have a 7 byte UID stored in the same exact places in memory… but there are readers and systems out there that work with the Ultralight C but not the NTAG216.

The DESFire EV1 in the flexDF is ISO14443A like the NTAG216, and has a 7 byte UID like the NTAG216, and if you are building your own solutions around it or using it with your phone only, then the differences between the two are irrelevant… but if you want to, for example, use it with a Samsung Ezon door lock, then the flexDF will not work with it. In fact, some Ezon locks only work with Mifare “classic” 1k chips with 4 byte NUIDs… they will not work with NTAG216 chips or DESFire EV1 chips.

Sorry it wasn’t a more exciting answer.

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Wow, nailed it. That’s exactly one of the things I want to do with it. I also want to use it with various 13.56mhz access systems at the office and other places. Maybe even Chuck E Cheese (confirmed that theirs are 13.56)! It would be nice if it was the same as the xEM, which seems to be compatible with nearly everything 125khz, but it seems like that’s too much to ask for.

Seems like maybe the FlexNT is the more “universal” between the FlexNT and FlexDF. The DF might be a higher class of NFC with even more capabilities, but that seems to make it more specialized and therefore less universal.

CEC uses Mifare Classic 1k chips with 4 byte NUID… We had the xM1+ implants that had chinese gen1 sector 0 writable clones of the 1k and I was able to clone a play card to one. It worked well at the top-up station but not on the actual rides… the readers are shit in the rides and could not read the implant. Also other chips like the flexNT could be read but did not work and could not be topped-up at the pay station.

We may make a flexM1+ some day… that might be interesting.

Yes, but only because the T5577 chip morphs to conform to other chip comm types… just to be clear.

Yes likely… because it’s the cheaper chip… a home door lock isn’t going to care about security, so it won’t care about DESFire support… even if you don’t end up using the secure features of the DESFire, it still takes a little bit of code changes to be compatible just reading the UID… and they don’t bother… which is irritating.

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Thanks for the excellent (and fast) responses! DT is awesome–keep up the great work!

No prob. In the mean time I have explored the idea of making a flex version of the xM1+… I have parts on order now to see about making a flexM4+ (mifare 4k block 0 UID changable product).

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Would love a flexM4+ :slightly_smiling_face:

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Just a note on the Samsung ezon …well, at least the one I have… the read range of the xnt isn’t really an issue, because you have to to touch the lock to wake it up anyways, so your hand is already making contact. They aren’t like 125khz readers which seem to be always on.

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