we know, itâs ok, youâre allowed to be wrong 
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What a mess. Iâm truly sorry it has come to this, logic aside, this does set a bad precedent for future borgs.
I agree with the âjust tell them you didâ they really have no legal right to touch you to check or scan you against your will⊠I also love the idea of bringing in a scalpel and having them do it or let them watch you do it because that would be horrifying for Normies.
Pretty much,
If you are going to make me cut my flesh open, Iâm going to scar and damage you psychologically as much as possible
Bringing in (maybe real maybe fake) chips in a vial with a dollop of blood in it
This topic harshes my chill, and makes me rather nasty
I could just pull the chips off the cards and take those in lol.
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There are so many various analogies that no employer would be able to get away, even though âat willâ and itâs not a protected class
Protected class is meant to be extra clear that you can never (unless photography apparently) discriminate
Doesnât mean everything else is fair game, just means it hasnât been ruled clear discrimination yet
Imagine an employer telling you, you had to undergo laser tattoo removal, even though the Tattoos arenât visable
Or telling someone they had to have breast implants removed
Or braces removed
No company could get away with that shit, even though it isnât age/race/sex/disability/religious discrimination
@darkdragon885 we both know the legal entity youâve been in contact is pretty focused on easy win cases, maybe you should look at someone less concerned about easy
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Bingo
And if challenged why they no beep,
âI deleted my personal credentials, as I donât trust you with themâ
Can also buy china crap animal tags for super cheap, just for gods sake donât inject them
I do kinda pick some up to embed in 3d prints maybe,
But stickers are easier
Those are two different issues: the former says you canât treat somone in a wheelchair any differently than a similarly qualitied person who has two working legs, unless the wheelchair conflicts with the job description (i.e. youâre allowed to hire a fully-abled person over a disabled person if they apply to be a lineman).
The latter is a bodily integrity issue, i.e. whether youâre allowed to interfere with someoneâs bodily inviolability through social pressure or plain coercion. For lawyers, itâs a minefield: you might think forcing someone to remove an implant is a no-no that would never fly in court. But consider this: abortion and euthanasia are also bodily integrity issues, and no lawyer will touch those with a 304.8 cm pole.
Youâve not been paying attention to legal politics in the last decade? Lol
Lawsuits after lawsuits both ways
I also havenât heard of any cases of someone forcing an abortion or non medical professional pushing for euthanasia besides family for quality of life
If an employer tried to force an employee to get an abortion Iâm sure someoneâs head would roll
I see a large difference between the state not letting you do something to yourself,
And a private entity coercing you into doing something to yourself
The issue seems to be with the chip, or maybe the country it was made, no?
Seriously it feels like an argument against a flat earther.
You know that makes me think,
Public shame is always an option,
@darkdragon885, you could reach out to a news source and see if they are interested in the story
Make sure you highlight their bullshit claims that China can track and spy on you
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Difficult situ. I can not mention shit about the place I worked b4 or where I am employed now. In the contract⊠they can sue, if they want to.
But not impossible⊠there is option to get around that!
Hi @darkdragon885! When you have an opportunity, no hurry, DM me please. I would like to discuss this situation and potentially incorporate it in my research on biohacking and identity construction/socio-economic-cultural-political implications.
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Damn⊠this whole thread just makes me angry. Feel bad for you, @darkdragon885 , for I know it is just a fucked up situation when you have to chose between staying true to your ideals (and what is right, in this case) and keeping a job. Itâs a shame people are forced to make such decisions at all.
On this one - there are some jobs where some piercings are impractical, because you could catch on them and hurt yourself (in this case, putting some tape over them would be sufficient), but other than that, there are no jobs that can be prevented by piercings, and tattoos even less. I work in retail, and I can sell stuff equally good as my non-pierced, non-tattooed, non-scarified and non-implantee colleagues
Thing is, employers especially in retail just worry far too much about âwhat would the customer think?â. Customers donât really give a fuck at how you look, as long as you are friendly, competent and simply provide solutions for the questions they have. If I go to a shop of any kind, I donât care if the selling person is male, female, trans or whatever, if (s)he is fat or anorexic, if (s)he wears a suit or some casual clothes, if (s)he has bodmods or not - I care if the person can answer my questions and sell me the thing I actually need. I might think âoh hey, I like that style!â or rather ânah, that just looks terribleâ, but this is sooo irrelevant for my decision where I buy my stuff.
I agree with all the others here who donât like letting the employer get away with that shit, especially since a chip is not the least bit visible, poses no security risk at all (so itâs totally non-sensical to force you having it removed) and require at least some sort of surgery to get it out.
Two very good ideas, I think - and, like others said, get it all written down, and maybe turn to some journalist or something the like (check your contract before to be sure what youâre allowed to talk about). If they insist that you take your chip out, make it as annoying for them as possible.
Another thing - how do you feel at work generally? How is the atmosphere, how do you get along with your colleagues, how is the payment and overall conditions? And how easy would it be for you to find another job?
All things to consider - because to be honest, I would plain on refuse to work for someone who forces me to have a surgery done to remove something that does in no way affect my job at all. But I understand that this might not be possible if you might end up without a job to pay your billsâŠ
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I donât doubt that for one minute, and I have no doubt anybody can do a good job regardless of how they look if theyâre qualified - be in retail, airlines or whatever. You know it, I know it, most everybody agrees with it.
But remember: you live in Germany. What is acceptable there is not acceptable everywhere. I can tell you without the shadow of a doubt that many US customers would walk out the door and/or complain to the storeâs head office because theyâre âshockedâ or âput offâ by your looks. Some people there are pretty intolerant, and it only takes some people to spook a companyâs HR department. The last thing they want is bad publicity.
Sad, but thatâs how it is.
As for the scalpel-the-chip-out-or-lose-your-job thing, itâs staggering that this is even possible. Not only from the perspective of labor laws - for someone like me whoâs escaped the US style of wage slavery known as âemployment at willâ - but also from a human and technical point of view: it takes a particularly callous person to demand something like that of another human being, it takes a particularly ignorant person to even think this is a problem in the first place, and it takes a lot of hubris to declare it a problem without even researching what it is about before passing judgment.
But I know Iâm preaching to the choir here.
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Iâm afraid youâre right⊠funny enough, in Mosambique, people were surprised about my looks, but more in a positive way - they asked some questions about it and all, but they were not âput offâ or something like that. So I might get along better in some 3rd-world-countries than in the USâŠ
But even here in Germany, there still is this misconception that I do all this bodmod-stuff to âprovokeâ or to stand out or whatever, just to annoy my fellow people. Did anyone ever tell a man with a beard that he just wants to provoke the well-shaved other guys? That a woman dying her hair brown just does so because she wants to stand out from the blondes? Soooo stupidâŠ
Luckily, I donât really know this concept, but I do know that labor laws in the US are just almost non-existant from a european point of view⊠why doesnât that change? Is nobody over there fighting those practices? Really asking out of curiosity, like I said, I donât know much about thisâŠ
Yeah, but still, it might at least feel nice for @darkdragon885 to hear some solid common sense on that topic - and maybe some good ideas as well 
Employment at will is quite simple: you leave whenever you want, the company offloads you whenever it wants. No explanation needed, no questions asked. The only requirement is that you give 15 days notice.
The idea in theory is, you and the company stay together as long as youâre happy together, and you part ways when it donât work out no more, no strings attached. Pure capitalism in action.
The only problem is, thatâs in fantasyland - which is what Americans are sold on the idea of. In the real world, you need a job, and the company has your replacement on the starting blocks because there are more applicants than jobs to go around. The net result is, you do as youâre told or youâre out.
In most European countries, this de-facto one-sided deal has been recognized, and restrictions have been put in place so bad employers canât take unfair advantage of their workforce. It does have drawbacks - chief of which is making hiring more difficult, because companies have to be very careful who they hire lest they get stuck with the bad apple, thereby increasing unemployment somewhat. But those who do find a job and get hired full time canât get ditched like an old tissue without due process.
Two words: Horatio Alger.
Since birth, Americans are spoon-fed the idea that, if they work hard, they can make it. If they find the right opportunity, they can strike it rich. And they cling to that idea like a bad fart in an elevator.
The reality of America, as in the rest of the world, is that without intervention from the state, rich people get richer, their offsprings have many more opportunities in life that poor peopleâs children, and the oligarchy perpertuates itself from generation to generation.
In what Americans believe are âsocialistâ countries (as if it was a dirty word), like France or Germany, a child born to a poor family has an (almost) equal chance to pursue a higher education and land a high-paying job as a rich child. Itâs not that simple of course, but itâs as close as it gets. In America, unless the poor kids gets lucky, theyâre almost guaranteed to stay in the same quagmire as their parents.
Statistically, thatâs what happens. But Americans ignore the stats and cling to the Horatio Alger myth. Donât ask me why, itâs not rational to me, but thatâs how it is.
Me, I live in countries that care for the young, care for the old, care for those less fortunate who lose their health or lose their job, and I happily pay taxes for that. I donât have kids, but the taxes I pay to educate other peopleâs is my legacy to the future, and the taxes I pay for other peopleâs social security is my gift to them. And most importantly, Iâm happy to pay for those things because, if bad things ever happen to me, society will take care of me too.
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I want to start off with saying I am not a lawyer, none of this is meant to be guidance for what you do.
If I was in your situations, I would first determine if I really need to work at this place or not. That should be the deciding thing. Do I need food and a roof? Can I get another job in a month?
If I were to decide that I would like to continue work there, but I donât want to remove my chips, I would consider letting them know they are violating my religious rights. By saying I do not have bodily autonomy, I am a card carrying member of the Satanic Temple who says I do.
If they still say it is a security issue, I would order 4 of the pet chips online, and give them to them to say it is done, and ask for a reimbursement, since HR policy doesnât state that I cannot have invisable body modifications.
If I were in your shoes, I would reach out to the satanic temple, and to the ACLU.
Really just comes back to the one question⊠How bad do you need this job?
Yes, sadly it comes down to that: do you need a job badly enough as to compromise your bodily integrity for it, on spurious unfounded reasons given by a random dude in a position of power in that company.
Really, really sad.
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So itâs really as simple as I thought? I was afraid that I was missing some important bit⊠because this is so anti-social itâs hardly believableâŠ
This is kinda true, I see it where I work - we sometimes have really bad employees, and itâs hard to get rid of them⊠but there is always a way to do, and I happily accept this drawback if it leads to a generally more fair working environment.
John Perry Barlow wrote a nice little text about thisâŠ
Iâm always a bit surprised by that attitude - especially since the chance to âstrike richâ is even lower because of the anti-social laws in the USâŠ
Same here - I just had some conversation here that Iâm actually totally okay to pay taxes (itâs some kind of sports here to avoid that as much as possibleâŠ^^), simply because they are, among other things, used to provide the safe and mostly-calm environment I can live in. Thatâs nice, I think
Boils down to that, yep⊠stupid world.
Yes, thatâs another gift of the nanny state: when you have nothing to fear, you have less stress in life, which yields a longer life and a better quality of life.
I donât know if youâve ever set foot in the US for any length of time, but the one thing I remember of it is this: you canât live there without experiencing a constant background level of stress and paranoia. I noticed that when I moved to Canada: it was like some pressure suddenly let off inside of me.
You donât know what it is it until you experience it - something most Americans donât get to do unfortunately.
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