Implants and compatibility with HID Seos IP?

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1

My work uses the (relatively) recent HID Seos cards and readers for their access control. I’ve looked through the datasheet, and as far as I can tell although the vivokey has cryptographic ability, seos is proprietary and therefore I’m not really sure if it will work as a replacement for my key card. The card I have wasn’t marked with exact branding, but from what I can tell it’s part of their 500x series, and therefore isn’t compatible with any existing legacy technologies. All the relevant branding I could see was the “HID Seos IP” on the bottom left of the card, and on the bottom right “xt”.

Can someone with more experience than me take a look and see if these are compatible, and if possible explain why/why not so I can be more informed?
Thank you.

Datasheet
Blog post about HID Seos

HID Global Page about the card - hidglobal. com/products/cards-and-credentials/iclass-seos/iclass-seos8k-prox

1 Like
2

It looks like SEOS is a java card applet… so no chance of cloning your card to an implant. There may be a future though where SEOS runs on the VivoKey Flex One… just would require cooperation from HID. This would be a Fidesmo question though.

3 Likes
3

Shit, I’d be down for an HID + DT partnership

4

It would be a VivoKey partnership for sure, and if you know the right people maybe we could arrange a chat :slight_smile:

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I wish, closest I know to someone at HID is my sales rep at ADI.

1 Like
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So if my work place uses this same type of cards and readers, is there any implant that can act as one of this cards? Not to clone an existing one but as a completely new one?

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I found this interesting

It’s the start of a possible seos emulator Java card applet. It would need some significant development, but it might just be possible to create a seos applet for Apex

1 Like
8

I was looking at this earlier as well, albeit as a gateway into some other research (I’m curious if there’s a way to emulate iClass SE with Apex). I might poke at it a little more.

2 Likes
9

dang it.

20230811_112535
20230811_1125351920×3410 200 KB

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What chip is in there? Maybe we convert it :slight_smile:

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It’s um…not exactly my card. lol.

Screenshot_20230811-134649_NFC Tools PRO
Screenshot_20230811-134649_NFC Tools PRO1429×1680 108 KB 

** TagInfo scan (version 4.25.4) 2023-08-11 13:46:00 **
Report Type: 
-- IC INFO ------------------------------

# IC manufacturer:
Unknown manufacturer

# IC type:
Unknown IC implementing ISO/IEC 14443-4

-- NDEF ------------------------------

# No NDEF data storage populated:

-- EXTRA ------------------------------

# TagInfo Version:
Version :4.25.4

# Device Info:
Device Model :samsung ( SM-S908U1 )
Android OS Version :12

-- FULL SCAN ------------------------------

# Technologies supported:
ISO/IEC 7816-4 compatible
ISO/IEC 14443-4 (Type A) compatible
ISO/IEC 14443-3 (Type A) compatible


# Android technology information:
Tag description:
* TAG: Tech [android.nfc.tech.IsoDep, android.nfc.tech.NfcA]
* Maximum transceive length: 65279 bytes
* Default maximum transceive time-out: 618 ms
* Extended length APDUs supported
* Maximum transceive length: 253 bytes
* Default maximum transceive time-out: 618 ms


# Detailed protocol information:
ID: XXX
* Random ID
ATQA: 0x0100
SAK: 0x20
ATS: XXX
* Max. accepted frame size: 256 bytes (FSCI: 8)
* Supported receive rates:
	- 106, 212, 424, 848 kbit/s (DR: 1, 2, 4, 8)
* Supported send rates:
	- 106, 212, 424, 848 kbit/s (DS: 1, 2, 4, 8)
* Different send and receive rates supported
* SFGT: 302.0 us  (SFGI: 0)
* FWT: 77.33 ms  (FWI: 8)
* NAD not supported
* CID supported
* Historical bytes: [none]

--------------------------------------
12

I edited out the ID, but I see now it is indeed random.

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I know this is an old post, but I ran across this related paper online. And don’t see it elsewhere. Might be interesting to someone researching Seos.
“A relay attack against HID Seos” - https://eprint.iacr.org/2023/450.pdf

2023-450.pdf (2.7 MB)

Tack a link to their code too,
“CardHopper - ISO14443-A long distance relay attack tools” - Loudmouth Security / CardHopper · GitLab

2 Likes
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I renamed it

SEOS_ A relay attack against HID Seos (2.7 MB)

and added it to the PDF repository

Thanks for the update

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Thanks. I recollect looking at that area once so far, but am often unsure memory wise.
I added a bit more to my comment, as I see they have a revised link to their code.