Indala 204 & desfire?

Hello wizards of 2021,

I have this keyfob that is nfc mifare desfire ev2 but im suspicious it has indala inside it which does all the stuff for the doors to open because my proxmark easy detects indala sometimes when doing lf search and i got it on the lf side of the reader.

The scanners at the doors also only lights up the LF led on the dangerous things card HF is not lighting up also not when i scan the key while still holding the card against it. i thought maybe it scans for LF if a valid 1 is found then it scans hf idunno why they would but whatever but yeh it didnt.

So it seems its only searching for LF signal i want to put this key in my NExT implant but i dont really know how to clone the indala part at all because everytime it actually reads for once it shows different raw data.

Most of the time it starts with 80000000… but i dont think that would be all i need it also detects wrong lengths i guess im still new to all this stuff.

If someone can explain anything to me please do so if you could explain it in depth and at the end in short easy terms that would be even more appreciated :slight_smile:

The Proxmark always confuses LF RF noise with Indala transponders. You most probably don’t have an Indala.

It is in fact a real problem for those of us who do have an Indala and want to clone it: the client is so bad at telling Indala UIDs from noise that you’re likely to get 10 different UIDs when you do 10 subsequent reads if the coupling isn’t impeccable.

oh i bet.

i am confused though because the reader doesnt use HF and the older tags that people use on the same doors are not even hf at all. Any idea what i can check/do?

Short of borrowing an older tag and presenting it to the Proxmark, not sure you can do much.

If your tag is a Desfire-only, the readers with which it works must be HF, or dual LF / HF. I would suggest you present your tag to a reader that works with your tag with the DT detector card in-between. You should see the HF side light up, and possibly the LF side then the HF side. My guess is that it looks for disturbance in the LF field and no answer from a valid tag before switching to HF. Maybe that’s why you only see the LF LED light up with the detector card alone.

Or you might indeed have an Indala inside your tag :slight_smile: But looking at your screenshot, I highly doubt it.

Just checked with my brothers fob he has the older 1 that doesnt have HF in it. it said valid indala found but i dont think the RAW data is a valid id. maybe its just like you said that its bad at reading indala i have held the diagnostics card in between the scanner and the tag and it did not light up HF.

If it is an Indala and the coupling is half decent, you should get a UID with a fixed length and not something that looks like noise (bunch of 0s and Fs), with this or that hex digit that changes from one read to the next. And when the coupling is perfect, no hex digit change - that’s how you know the coupling is good in fact.

This looks too much like noise. Either the coupling is exceptionally bad, or it’s not an Indala. I couldn’t tell you much more from the other side of the internet sadly. Sorry :slight_smile:

Also, if your tag has a HF side, you could confirm it with a cellphone and TagInfo. Maybe it’s just not used in this particular system.

By the way, if the tag is genuine Indala, it should have HID or INDALA written on it :slight_smile:

all it says is the security company name and the number we use in the software to set the permissions and AD4924 very tiny at the bottom.

Okay. Well like I said, I’m not sure how well the PM3 Easy couples with LF tags and what to expect out of it. If I could bring it up to my PM3 RDV4, I could tell you pretty quick if it’s noise or not, cuz I know the device and how Indala tags should read with it. But it’s kind of hard to do from here :slight_smile:

hahahah True well thanks for the info really appreciate it.

You bet. But don’t you worry, other forum dwellers know a lot more than I do and they’ll surely answer something more useful. And perhaps you can ask for help from someone local to you.

This is different from a disturbance in the force


the other important aspect of telling noise from a legit tag is repeatability… if it’s consistent, then it’s likely a legit Indala tag

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Could you post a picture of the reader?

We MIGHT be able to identify the system therefore the card type you are using.

Any chance you can read this for me?
I have a couple of guesses but to save me some time…
or if you can’t, can you take another photo of a little more reader, a little less wall

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I read “isgus” from the pictures but I failed to find that particular reader on their website? Maybe it’s an older model and I’d have to dig deeper?

Their current offerings support a variety of tags, as most modern readers do…

its isgus.

i think its an older 1 yeah bcuz i couldnt find it either.

It appears to be an older isgus it400 or it400sss based on the following listings

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