Multiple impants in one hand and newbie questions

I will be buying one of the cyborg monday deals, but still trying to decide so I’d like to hear y’alls opinion; either the “[white bundle]”(https://dangerousthings.com/product/white-bundle/) [beacuse blinky blinky lights are awesome] or “The Ultime” but not sure I’d use the xM1(When I scan my local(Houston) transit card it says its a Mifare classic 1k so if I understand things I should be able to clone it?) If I choose to forgo the blinky xLed then I may splurge for the “lifestyle bundle” the that has an xG3 magnet implant but I’ve also read on the forums that they are not so much a sensing magnet but rather a lifting one. So perhaps not.

This all leads me to maybe a lack of real estate, to start off I’d have 1 in each hand in the recommended implant site, the webbing of the hand. but where to place the other ones?

Also read the xLed is significantly bigger in diameter than the others so maybe have that one in the recommended spot and a thinner somewhere else?

thanks for your replies

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It looks like you have done your research, which is great.
Personally I have no interest in the LEDs or Magnets, however for what it is worth, my opinion, for the LED, I would suggest that the White would be brighter and also show as red through the skin ( bearing in mind, I don’t have one so this is just an assumption ), also I would suggest that you place it alongside your NExT, Spark or xM1 ( ≥5mm apart ), as your LED should

blinky blinky

when you scan your other implant;
this takes up one webbing spot in one hand.
You then have your other hand webbing for another spot.
Personally I would then place my least used implant on top of my hand between metacarpals.
EDIT :bulb: as a thought, the skin on the top of your hand will be thinner so xLED will be brighter… :bulb:

Have a search on the forum for magnet placements, there are a few practical options for that.
And yes, it sounds like your Houston travel card would be compatible ( How did you scan to see the Mifare info?)

Side note, I am envious of you, Great product Great prices and great timing, I wish I had the same deals and implants to choose from when I got mine.

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I think a lot of people put the xLED next to a standard implant of the same frequency so you get a bit of an indication that you’re close to the readable tag. As long as you leave decent spacing between the xLED and the other implant, usually shooting for 5mm minimum between the implants and ideally 10mm away from bone you should be pretty safe.

Also while the xLED’s are definitely beefier in size and have a fairly gnarly needle to go with, that hasn’t stopped people from putting them in some pretty interesting places from their chest to arms and legs and under tattoos.

Really though there’s a few levels of “safe” or really it’s more what you consider to be acceptable risk. Here’s generally the checklist I run down when figuring out where to put an x-series tag. I’m personally fine with the near tendon level and below, but assess that risk yourself and do what you’re comfortable with.

  • Lifting surfaces like your palms or the soles of your feet are a terrible idea, please don’t do that.
  • Near bone is strongly discouraged.
  • Areas with high nerve density are probably not ideal.
  • Near tendons or blood vessels is less than ideal, but might be workable with a professional installer or steady hands.
  • Anything that doesn’t tick any of the above boxes is about as good as you’re going to get.
  • The standard spot in the thumb and index finger webbing is the absolute safest place to put stuff.
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I used NFC tools Pro app for android [screenshot below] and also read it using the mifare classic tool app and also seemed to read it.

Lol I’ve been waiting for months for them to go on sale, researching and reading as ,much as I can meanwhile.

Thought about it but idk about them being that close if it increases risk or makes them less readable.

Again, I can’t speak from experience, and others may chime in here if i’m incorrect, but this should not be an issue; the reader whatever it is, SHOULD be putting out enough power to read/ energise both.
Just make sure you give them enough separation to prevent impact together and you SHOULD be fine.

very patient of you, I might get some more, because
Cyborg-Monday-5

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So I guess I should probably be safe putting 2 in the webbing of my hand.

my other spot would be between the metacarpals of the pinky and ring finger but then the implants would def be less that 10 mm from bone.

I may be over thinking this but I don’t want to get everyhting perfect the first time around.

I’m not sure if you have seen a couple of my posts where I reference the planning, I totally concur. If you haven’t…
Check out the “WHERE SHOULD I PUT IT section” in this Wiki

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Im a newbie and I need serious help. I have no idea what chip to get. I want to be able to pay with it (in a sense like travel on the subway with it) and unlock doors and smartphones. Pleaseeee help!! Feel free to add me on my Snapchat: Knruc all help would be appreciated

Hey there fellow newbie,

Payments are quite limited at the moment, emv type payments are not supported at the moment. However, depending on what system your local subway uses you may be able to pay for stuff there using an implant, you would need to figure out what system your subway uses and go from there.

As far as smartphones and access control systems you would want to go with a NExT as iit would likely handle what you want, again you should probably figure out what type of access control system you will be dealing with first and then go from there.

Sadly there isn’t a “magic” do everything implant.

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Thanks! I just looked at the xdf2 would that be a good one for unlocking smart phone and sharing information as well as unlocking doors?

If you are talking about unlocking smartphone as in android, google deprecated that nfc functionality. Existing users of unlocking with nfc can keep using it as long as they don’t de-enroll the tag or similar. But you can no longer use nfc for that.

the xDF2 “works with NFC enabled smartphones, certain commercial access control systems, various ISO14443A compatible door locks, as well as USB contactless ISO14443A readers.”

So yes you can use it with SOME access controllers [13.56MHz ones ONLY], sharing stuff like a contact card to an NFC enabled smartphone.
However you will NOT be able to operate 125kHz access control systems.

the NExT can operate both 13.56MHz and 125kHz systems, and also work with your phone. One difference is also it has smaller memory space.

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Ok thanks! Last question I promise lol! So you can share contact info thru a NExT chip to other android smartphones that have a NFC chip? Or can you only do that with the Xdf2

Yes, you can use a NExT to store any NDEF data you want. Including contact info.

However you won’t be putting a picture on it like you could on the xDF2

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Okay awesome, thanks so much for your help!

Memory size is not the only difference between Mifare DESfire EV2 and NTAG216. DESfire also has pretty good cryptography internally and allows challenge/response authentication. It means you can have an unbreakable login system (or door lock) with that chip. NTAG216 is really dumb when it comes to security features so it’s easy to clone its memory and emulate the UID.
Note that there are barely any door locks on the market that support advanced authentication like DESfire provides you with, I’ve seen only one lock and it’s really expensive (I don’t remember the model name). I’m sure that open-source deadbolt lock developed by people from this forum will support cryptographic auth so you can wait for it or build your own DIY lock.

To clarify.
If you bind your NFC door lock to your NExT implant and also put a business card in it, anyone who knows your home address could just scan your business card with their Android smartphone (obviously obtaining the UID same time) and then easily enter your house.

Figuring out how to emulate a HF tag is a challenging endeavor that only an extremely small subset of the population would/could ever accomplish. I understand and share your desire to have true security, but there’s a significant difference between true security and functional security. An ordinary door with a key, and truly secure cryptographic key enabled smart door are both going to be equally susceptible to a quick whack with a sledgehammer. For newer biohackers I feel it’s important to emphasize ease-of-use over granular infosec vulnerabilities.

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Imagine you are popular in local tech communities…
Imagine having some enemies…
Imagine visiting DEFCON (full of hackers!) and giving someone your vCard…
I’m talking about a directional attack, not about random robbers with hammers.
And this is the case when security through obscurity turns out to be shit.
I couldn’t sleep well knowing that my door could be opened by intruder in few seconds without any physical damage.
There is a bit different attitude about home security in Russia than in USA/Europe. I don’t mean our country is full of marginals but we have strong metal doors :slight_smile: I’d like to live in USA where people have glass parts in their front doors and could keep them unlocked during the day while being inside. It’s different there.

To sum up: it’s ok to use any level of security you want but you should understand and accept all the risks.

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