Non-implant "versions" of VivoKey Apex and FlexMN that can be tucked into phone case?

Does this exist? I’m looking for something that can emulate the largest scope of key cards. If it can do 2FA or some other kind of auth even better.

That would be something like a chameleon, which is built for that purpose, and more.

Or if your interest is mostly HF, technically even your phone can be made to emulate cards without need for other devices.

There are also plenty of NFC stickers, inclusive of T5577 ones (and other emulation chips), for sale on a bunch of places such as Ali and e-bay as well…

On that note, do you mean a challenge authentication, or 2 factor auth?

Because by definition, 2 factor autenthication, such as sms or RSA token, cannot be done by the same device as the primary auth (else it ceases being 2 factor, and becomes 2 step).

The Chameleon can only simulate dump chips - and not very many at that. It’s a cute toy, but you ain’t gonna turn it into an Apex - or a DESFire, or anything more clever than a M1k, and not even a very good one neither.

I think the best way to get a non-implant version of the Apex is to order an Apex and not implant it :slight_smile:

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True that.

but what would you reccomend especifically for this:

If the question were “any keycard”, I would suggest a good reader on a laptop. :sweat_smile:

but being portable and specifically for emulating the largest scope possible, are there actually many options beyond the chameleon?

(serious question. not to make a point)

There is the ChameleonTinys bigger brother, the ChamaleonMini that can do a bit more. But I don’t think that really answers your question.

when I said “chameleon” I’m counting all the 3 family members (software included) :wink:

Wouldn’t they be looking for the Flipper? (Also, if anyone ordered 2, but really just want 1, let me know)

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I’m pretty sure Amal said there’s going to be Vivokey rings, right?

Vivokey rings… Are those anal implants?


Were you at the pub? :stuck_out_tongue:

anything can be if you try hard enough… but no, they are not designed to be that.


Uhhhh… by try do you mean $$$$$

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Did you check out the fidesmo card and the magic Card from KSEC…standby for links

Fidesmo card, it is the older P40 chip but I’ll let @fraggersparks or @Satur9 confirm if you can use it as a vivokey…

I think this answers your question but not necessarily the answer to your goal.

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If by this you mean in the VivoKey app once Apex support is added, no at this stage. This will be a pre-provisioned app only for VivoKey customers.

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Maybe it would make sense to provide customers with a card with the app as a backup (so they don’t lose their login).

Joking but maybe don’t do that because they’ll learn pretty quickly that they should have just gotten an implant to begin with.

I dunno about you but I always lose my shit. Making a card brings us back to the losing your keys problem. That’s literally the origin story. Book of Amal, chapter 1: “identity tokens that you can lose are lame, I just need to prove that it’s me.”

Then there’s like the whole horror show of selling cards and other tokens as a retail item, which has been the business model of access control companies for decades.

You’re touching on one important issue here: the whole premise of identifying yourself securely with an implant - something Vivokey is trying to sell to EMV and other overly risk-averse sumbitches presumably - rests on the fact that the implant can’t be easily separated from its legitimate owner. Having wearable versions of them kinda defeats that selling point.

On the other hand, people lose their ID cards and their payment cards also. So nothing new there.

Pretty much the reason I’m hesitant to allow non implanted cards onto the vivokey platform.

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What if you allow a registred Vivokey user to load the applet on a single Fidesmo card using the Vivokey app? So they have the option for a recovery key, but it’s not enabled by default

What are the recovery options for a Vivokey verified account, if an implant decides to shit its pants (I know, I know, very unlikely - but possible) because of damage/traumatic injury? I wouldn’t secure any valuable info/account if it turns out to be unrecoverable. Which kinda defeats the purpose.

Perhaps get a Vivokey Spark2 and put it in an innocuous place? Then you would have a backup for your key that you can’t lose. In fact that’s probably what I will do if/when vivokey starts to be used for more than just logging into the DT forum.