Swapping implants positions

Alright folks, so here is the deal.
Last year i got my next implant in L0 and my xmagic in R0. I also have an apex in my right forearm 2-3 cm above my wrist.
All implants work great. Unfortunately there was a small screw up with the xmagic install, and from what I see it’s been implanted shallow. If I push it with a finger it’s moving. For example. My next stays rock solid. I was thinking that it will settle after instal heals, but 1 year ff it did not.
It really bugs me. So back to the topic, I am about to pull the trigger on a second apex and flexug4. To my liking I was willing to get the apex installed at L4 and flexug4 ar R4. Therefore I do not need two mifare implants at the same hand, so I was thinking to ask my installer to rip the next and xmagic and swap their places, then proceed with the flex installs. I am almost sure that the guy can do it based on his skillset. I’ve contacted him but I am still waiting for his reply.
Option 2 which I am considering, would be to have apex at L4 and ug4 at L2, then ask the guy to reseed the xmagic.
I know xseries are easily autoclaveable.
Wondering if anyone did something like that? Also looking for advice if option 2 may be a good idea. Thanks!

1 Like

What do you mean exactly? Is there an implant that moves with the skin and one that moves independently from the skin?

Yeap, and that makes this even easier:

I’d want @amal to weigh in on this, but I believe it would be should be sufficient to take the implant out, wash it in either a 3% hydrogen peroxide, a 70% isopropyl alcohol, or a 70% ethanol solution, dry it, and then replant it immediately.

The catch is you’d want to make sure there are no caked on blood/etc as the wash wouldn’t sanitize through that.

Also, I’m not sure how the flex implants will react with alcohol, so I’d personally use hydrogen peroxide for that. The glass should be fine with anything.

Again, I’d want a second opinion on this, but personally I’d be fine with this method.

edit:
I wanted to do some deeper research on this so this is a basic summary of what I’ve found.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6031597/
Here’s a paper that mentions

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) does not kill spores effectively at a low concentration (< 2%) (low-level disinfectant), but it acts as a high-level disinfectant or chemical sterilant if allowed sufficient time at a high concentration (7.5–30%) [14,21,22].

H2O2 has a very unstable structure that can be broken at any time (Fig. 1C). Once the bond is broken via the Fenton reaction, as described above, a hydroxyl radical (•OH) is formed, and it performs sterilization. Improved hydrogen peroxide is produced through mixture with surfactants, and this functions as a high-level disinfectant that can remove endospores and non-enveloped viruses if used for 5 minutes in 2% solution.

My personal thinking is that as long as you remove the device carefully, and disinfect your skin before the procedure, the risk involved with exposing the implant to other sources of potential infection before re-installation is relatively small.

Edit edit:
Looks like getting higher concentrations of hydrogen peroxide isn’t too hard. Here’s 12% for $20.

Would be interesting to come up with a recommended procedure for re-implanting devices using this method.

edit edit edit:
Here’s a good source from the CDC with effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide at difference concentrations and amounts of time. It’s a very interesting read.
Tl;dr. Hydrogen peroxide is effective against bacteria in shorter amounts of time. It needs much longer to kill fungi and spores.

edit x4:
Take all of this with a grain of salt, I am an idiot most times

2 Likes

I have moved a few Flexies and xSeries and the “procedure” is pretty straight forward for each.

Your only complicator is that you have a semi-mobile xMagic. If this is causing discomfort, then moving it is a good consideration, but if it just “bugs” you, I guess you need to decide if it is really worth moving

All my xSeries I actually plan for shallow installs, an I attribute this planning to my never struggling to read them like I see others on the forum having problems with.
Do you have any pictures?

Ohhh, Nice!
I’m considering a 2nd APEX Flex OR a FlexSecure also.

These sound like good options to me

This sounds (to me) like you are over thinking it…

Remember, the FlexUG4 doesn’t have to be a Mifare… plus when it is, you can still use them independently.
I feel like I am missing what your problem with that is :thinking:

This is easy to do, but personally I don’t think it is necessary.
You risk having i placement issues, because

My opinion, that is another viable option.

3 Likes

yes they can be… but just to be safe, put them in a sterilization pouch to do it so you can test before opening the pouch and putting them on the sterile field for installation.

If you mean it “moves” but basically returns to where it came from after releasing tension, this is fine… but if you mean it migrates under the skin and you can basically tunnel it around under your skin to new positions, then that’s not great… not necessarily unsafe, just not great.

3 Likes

Oh I am not removing anything, the body mod artist will(eventually). I agree with the statement above.

Yup, this is what it does.

No discomfort, pain or anything. I wonder if it’s worth it, since they are pretty well positioned on both hands.

Cool, I do not plan to move the flex, just the glassies.

Thinking of it, here is another idea.
2 new apexes + the flexug4. One apexes on L4 and R4 and the ug at L2. This way I wont need to move the x series implants.
I wonder, does 2 cm distance between an apex and the other flex would be enough? Honestly I am not a big fan of L2 because it may block access to blood vessels in case of an abbocath installation( there are plenty other places to get poked thou, but still)

What about P0-L for your UG4?
What about P1-L for your UG4
I have an xMagic in in P0-L and ApexFlex in P1-L
I have not experienced any issues if thats what you are concerned about.

Make a fist with your left hand, you will see there is 90 degrees between P0 and P1 this means you’ll have no issues isolating whichever implant you want to read

EDITED my P0/P1 mistake

2 Likes

I have NeXT there, but I might consider L P1 instead of P2, i still have time to decide. So you’re saying 2 cm difference is not a problem. That’s cool

In this case moving the glass implants is becoming useless

Fuck, thats what I meant, Not sure why I wrote P0 :man_shrugging:

1 Like

So glassy in P0, flexy in P1 and flexy in P3 is ok?
They don’t interfere with each other?

1 Like

Physically? Probably not… but RF wise, I can imagine some configurations that might make it difficult to target a specific device when presenting to a reader.

1 Like

Anyone else willing to share experience with readers having more than one flex at p1-4 ?

I had my custom Payment conversion in P4 and my FlexM1 in P1 and NExT in P0

No problem isolating any of those.

There is a 90 degree seperation between P0 and P1 and enough seperation between P1 and P4 to target them individually on a reader.

3 Likes