The pros and cons of a Mifare Classic gen2

just a note; if you’re getting the xmagic i would heavily recommend getting the gen1 version over the gen2

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Oh?

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gen1a can’t be bricked, accidentally or intentionally it’s always recoverable unless there’s a hardware fault in the chip which is not something you can really plan for.

gen2 can be bricked, easily by accident and most gen2 detection systems i’ve seen personally and those i have heard of through friends will intentionally send a write command that will fuck your gen2 into oblivion if it detects its gen2 (can quote examples if needed)

sure gen1 detection is more common relative to gen2 but in the grand scale it’s not that common and xseries don’t work on a bunch of readers anyway due to size so inability to use implant is something you should be prepared for anyway.

i would much rather have an implant that gets rejected by the reader instead of one that becomes inert due to a bad write or a hostile defense system.

honestly if we are talking mifare classic you should really scope out the system you are wanting to use it for before committing, analysing a trace of the communications between a real card and the reader will show you if it has magic detection and if so, what types. you would need to repeat this process for every new system you plan to use it with if you have a gen2.
(i will make a wiki page about what i’ve just described)

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True, but being able to program the implant without the need for a PM3 or F0 or anything might be nice for someone just dipping a toe in

Not certain if he could use the PN532 or other boards he already has for Gen1a programming?

I’d definitely recommend learning more about the two gens before making that choice, and do personally prefer the Gen1a, but I’m not certain I would strongly recommend one over the other

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I think there are reasons to get gen2, but I will admit I went with gen1a on my xMagic partially due to fear of hostile defense systems (exactly something I would put in place).

Besides, there are few reasons I personally have to change my MIFARE slot on the go.

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Follow up question:

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soft brick, bitch to recover but doable. have to disable basically all validation checks to get it to talk enough to send a command to fix it. this is enough to scare a lot of people into thinking it’s dead fully because trying to read it without configuring your environment will throw so many errors at you.

that or the bad write triggers the aforementioned memory failure which is just bad luck and something you couldn’t have prevented and still would have happened with a good write eventually. i’ve seen this a total of once in my entire career

TLDR; i can with one command brick any gen2 i want, i can soft brick a gen1 but cant make it permanently unusable.

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Very interesting

On the PM3? I would have figured the backdoor commands didn’t do much checking

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i suppose i’m too much of a purist but i don’t think you should be dipping your toe in by getting an implant, that’s like testing if your water is hot enough by sticking your hand in instead of using a thermometer.

MCT can brick your gen2 if you write a wrong block 0 (IE that of a 7byte mifare classic not knowing they’re not interchangeable; or self selecting the UID and not calculating the correct BCC for the block 0)

also MCT is not always enough to clone a mifare classic, it can only do the dictionary attack which is not even close to a guarantee of success. if MCT fails to recover all the keys you will need to learn how to use the proxmark (or flipper) enough to clone a mifare classic which is incredibly trivial and well documented at this point but i will make a wiki post anyway for those that don’t care enough about rfid to learn it but want to achieve this one singular goal.

an implant is a big step to take and if you are wanting a mifare classic implant to handle mfc access control but don’t want to learn access control hacking enough to use the implant, either commit one day to learn about the thing you’re buying or don’t get an implant.

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backdoor commands still need 14a framing which requires validating BCC at least (wupC handles the rest)

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Some more info around the gen1a and gen2 discussion

FYI
I have both gen1a and gen2, and had the gen2 for for…years and used it frequently, I have never had an issue, but i am also aware of the risk

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might i ask why? i’m trying to think of a situation where it would be necessary for someone’s only mifare classic implant to be a gen2

id get a gen2 implant because ive got gen1s and am confident that i can (and already do) assess a systems defenses before selecting which magic card to use, and a gen2 would be useful where only gen1 detection is present. not gonna because i’ve got a ug4 which can do all of that and then not even act like a magic but point stands

edit to clarify: i think gen2s deserve to exist, i would have made a strong case to amal against them if i didnt i just dont think for a first timer that a gen2 is what you should be getting.

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I think the biggest selling point is MCT and the convenience.
Although
I think risks and limitations need to be understood and accepted

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I meant dipping a toe into implanting, it does sound like they have done a little experimentation with RFID/NFC

I don’t think there’s really a softer step into implanting than the first implant


All good points, and I do agree with you that people should learn these things and make an educated decision before jumping a toe into the implant water deep-end :classic_tongue:

But, I’m still not totally convinced that a Gen2 wouldn’t make a fine first implant for someone willing to do a little more learning and take a little more care

Disclaimer:
I’m a hobbyist who has bricked 0 magic chips of any variety, and I would go so far as to call Equip an expert. He 1000% has more experience than me and as a general rule I definitely recommend listening to him :classic_smile:

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I’m not strictly saying in this case, or as one’s only implant.

If someone generally knew what they were doing, but their only big use was traveling for work and using the implant at hotels (just an example, bear with me), and lets also say they don’t want a flex for whatever reason…

An xSeries in gen2 would be able to be cloned on the fly on their phone. No need to lug an extra tool around.

If I were to get another non-gen4 magic implant, it would be gen2 purely due to the occasional downsides of gen1a (which I already have).

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this i can totally agree upon but it’s contingent on the whole willing to do a little more learning and take care part, if you’re willing to actually learn about it a gen2 makes a good start because you’ve got to learn a fair bit.

(i think mct is a pretty nil point because it’s convenience is contingent on its success which doesn’t translate to a lot of use cases like hotels and many access control systems that deploy site-specific or individualistic dynamic keys)

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read my points about MCT in my previous messages (the biblically long one has more detail)

you’re gonna be an unhappy camper if you think mct can be relied upon enough to not lug a tool around with ya, when it inevitably fails.

again i’m an RFID purist and a massive nerd who carries a lot of equipment in my EDC backpack, i’m not trying to be an arse i do apologise if it’s come across that way in this thread i just don’t think “mct exists” is a good enough reason to get a gen2

i speak from experience because i was once 16 buying my first implant simply because it was expensive and said magic on it, didn’t even have a proxmark or new id need one. no research prior and an expectation of blind success which eventually lead me to become the monster you see before you.

id hate for someone who’s not already well researched in what they’re doing to buy a gen2, use mct to scan their card and write a 7 byte uid to their implant, setting a new fubar record.

also something i haven’t previously mentioned that spring to mind, mifare classic sectors can be set permanently to read only via ACLa and i have seen this in the field and also been an admin of a system that did this.

you could use MCT to clone a mifare classic 1k 4b uid all perfectly and then later realise the memory can no longer be changed.

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Yeah. I know but I like being able to use my phone. It’s a risk I am willing to take. I did think about it a lot before I purchased the gen 2.

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In that vein:

Test card pack

Pick up some Gen2 non-implants too if you go that route, much better to kill a fob before you write something to an implant without checking

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Exactly this. If I am not sure I test on my ring . If I brick that, it doesn’t require stabbing.

(I need to get in the habit of carrying test cards but only remember to pack them once I have reached my destination…)

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