UG4 Dead not even a week into install

[Equipter]

ug4 was installed Tuesday night by my well-trained partner, and the procedure was entirely flawless, taking less than 30 seconds, smooth and quick.

Immediately after install, i got no scan on my Flipper or iPhone, and had to prod with my proxmark to get a hit with hf 14a reader -@ i reasonably assumed this was site trauma internal bleeding whatever, but still expected some better results due to the antenna size.

0 damage to the area in the time since install, the implant is almost totally healed over on the surface, it’s installed in my forearm about 1/4 the way down, 0 movement of that area to disrupt the implant

and it has totally died. I left it alone to do its healing and tried again to get a hit on my phone, no dice so set up my proxmark to see if the poll for 14a info is any better. and it is entirely unresponsive, 1000mv drop on tune but absolutely nothing on 14a reader -@ in any position, orientation, distance, probing absolutely nothing.

There are not words to describe what i am feeling right now.

given its abysmal performance after install, i can only conclude that this is a problem with the connection between the chip and the antenna being bad from the start.

I am not looking for troubleshooting, i have gone through every step i have in my toolbox and it is totally dead in the water, i am completely stuck on what to do now with this useless implant in me that i never even got to use.

it is not in a position where it can bend or flex or anything, its in an entirely flat part of my arm.

this is incredibly disappointing.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

I would pull it out whilst the incision is still fresh.
then
Inspect it the best you can, take photos, microscope, Ticket to DT
Play with the connection once it’s outside of you. DT may want it back for their own inspection.

Maybe @tac0s could arrange a replacement from KSEC so you can get a new one in you faster and before the wound closes.

Better yet, remove it once you get the replacement …

Did you notice any issues during your pre-installation testing, that now, looking back, could have been a sign that all was not perfect?

EDIT:
My UG4 is still going strong, but I would say, It is not my best reading implant.
A little slow and the range is less than similar form factor ApexFlex.

My phone would read it without a MFGC, but only just.
Mine is in P4-L

[Equipter]

@Pilgrimsmaster

I would pull it out whilst the incision is still fresh.

at almost a week out, the incision is mostly healthed up, it is maybe 1/3rd its original size (prenatal vitamins and my well practiced aftercare) and we tunneled well enough through so that it wasnt close to the entry point, to pull it out through that hole would require splitting the wound open past where its currently healed and further than it was original, and forcing open the healed tunnel, ive not got scalpels dermal lifts or anything sterile i could use to pull it out once we identify it in the pocket. And my partner, although well enough versed in basic installations, has not done anything close to what’s needed in order to do this removal and ive not even told them its dead so whether or not they’d be comfortable with ripping it out of me is another question.

@Pilgrimsmaster

Did you notice any issues during your pre-installation testing, that now, looking back, could have been a sign that all was not perfect?

The only testing I did was confirming I could get a clean read with my proxmark and that it was indeed a proper UG4, i didn’t test read range because that isn’t a data point worth collecting, as the read range would be different when inside me.

It read fine when sat directly on the proxmark in its packet, I had no cause for concern, if id noticed anything during testing I would not have put it in but i had no reason to do more than basic functionality confirmation testing.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@Equipter

The only testing I did was confirming I could get a clean read with my proxmark and that it was indeed a proper UG4, i didn’t test read range because that isn’t a data point worth collecting, as the read range would be different when inside me.

Thats pretty much all I would have done also, Any functionality I would have tested on a test card.

@Equipter

It read fine when sat directly on the proxmark in its packet, I had no cause for concern, if id noticed anything during testing I would not have put it in but i had no reason to do more than basic functionality confirmation testing

Totally fair points.

Again. I would have been exactly the same.

Hopefully @tac0s or @amal will be along shortly, but it is their weekend…

[Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha]

@Equipter

almost a week

I realize it’s unlikely, and rarely an issue on flexes to begin with, but is there any chance it’s just a bizzarro swelling-inflamation thing and might still improve with time?

It seems odd to me to experience such a rapid failure under those circumstances

Have you tried the thing where you sort of press on the chip and try to spark a connection?

@Equipter

I am not looking for troubleshooting, i have gone through every step i have in my toolbox

I know, I know… I just can’t help myself…
It sucks, and if there’s even a chance it could suck a little less…

In any case, sorry to hear about it

[Equipter]

@Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha

I realize it’s unlikely, and rarely an issue on flexes to begin with, but is there any chance it’s just a bizzarro swelling-inflamation thing and might still improve with time?

there is no visible swelling, yes i know internal is a thing but its entirely painless, not firm and i am using the RDV4’s bare gold plated exposed HF antenna, that thing can almost read a card through the thickness of my entire arm, it should be able to pick up on the big antenna in the UG4, and in any case id not expect inflammation/site trauma to completely cut responsiveness, just mess with comms and interference.

I’ve even gone so low as to manually send 14a wakeups to see if i can see a hint of life in a trace.

@Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha

Have you tried the thing where you sort of press on the chip and try to spark a connection?

trying now

[Equipter]

@Aoxhwjfoavdlhsvfpzha

Have you tried the thing where you sort of press on the chip and try to spark a connection?

thumbing down on the implant with my proxmark’s exposed antenna adding a decent bit of pressure the only thing i was able to squeak out was one singular anitcollision failure response and then nothing else

[tac0s]

@Pilgrimsmaster

Hopefully @tac0s or @amal will be along shortly, but it is their weekend…

We’ve been chatting about it. Ticket is open.

[Hamspiced]

I know you’re seasoned. I’m going to say still it’s swelling. So you can replicate this with a very thin bag of salt water over a field detector and a field generator. The field is scattered so much that the signal gets distorted immensely.

However you know this well enough that I’m also inclined to tell you to trust your gut. But mine is telling me that non visible swelling is causing you issues

[Equipter]

I was thinking much the same but ive never had this level of non-interactive response from any of the flexes or xseries ive had and i know its anecdotal because they dont share my physiology but ive not heard the same from any of my friends either to the level where it doesnt talk at all.

i’m happy to give it another week if thats what the jury wants but with the amount of equipment i have available i would have expected something.

[Hamspiced]

@Equipter

but with the amount of equipment i have available i would have expected something.

This is why I say trust your gut.

Easiest way to see if it is dead (ie chip came off antenna during install) is see if you can get a measurement with a nano vna and a loop. If you get any reading it will likely be out of tune but it will show that there’s interference and that you need to wait. If you see nothing, it will confirm your suspicion.

[Equipter]

will organise that equipment from the hackspace when ive not got work

at the 1wk mark im going to see if theres any casual progress if not then put a spot-bandaid over the scab and wrap my forearm where the ug4 is in kinesiology tape to make it compressed properly and see if i can get anything resembling a read.

UMC’s inherent timing issues with mifare classic makes me wonder if the default configuration the implant came in (4b s70) Is potentially exacerbating this issue? given the anomalous behaviour never seen with any of my other implants i am curious if the fact that the timing is already out of whack is being made completely unreadable because of the internal swelling, this is a very thin hypoethesis because im clutching for straws.

[Hamspiced]

If you’re good with sending it back after your tests I have a spare lite64 I can send you. Just lmk.

[Equipter]

i very very much appreciate the offer but we’ve got a hw clone nano vna at the hackspace, id not want to risk such a piece of kit ++ shipping costs both ways, thank you though.

[Hamspiced]

Just shipping costs one way. And it’s already configured and you won’t have to make the loop. You know what, I’ll even send an extra loop I made you can donate to your hacker space.

[Equipter]

ooo, ill shoot you a message over discord?

[Hamspiced]

Discord or here. Remind me of your shipping address in the message. I’m out of town until Tuesday and I’ll get it out same day.

[Hamspiced]

Update: vna enroute to verify deadness

[Jammyjellyfish]

Making a thread and then immediately spamming links to it across several different threads is a poor way to get help.
This is not a proxmark centrict community, but this is a great community. People who have the knowledge will try to help you, but it’s not their job to play support for this. Be patient. Be kind

edit: thanks for the clean-up @Pilgrimsmaster

[mrln]

Dmed me also with the link and asking to take a look and help xD’