So I am breaking down my Tap Strap 2 and want to add a magnet to the first length of each finger to hold it on instead of using rings. I cut off most the excess rubber just to get an idea and all 4 fingers are 5.540 g together. They probably weigh about the same so say I need to hold at least 1.38g per finger BUT have some resistance to acceleration and deceleration and some room for normal daily movements. The thumb part is staying a ring so it can’t wholly come off ever and because it’s the heaviest part.
THE ACTUAL QUESTION BECAUSE IM VERY MIDWEST HERE:
Is there some good rule of thumb for knowing how much static grippy will be sufficient to deal with a tapping motion worth of acceleration and deceleration? Like can I readily assume if it’ll hold 10 grams it will be able to not come off with when I’m angrily tapping abuse at my ISP for their inability to have consistent uptime?
I know the strength will be different once it’s in. I have a slab of fake stitch practice skin I intend to use to estimate implanted strength. But I don’t want to buy a ton of magnets and do a spray and pray of just jabbing them into the slab. Not if someone already has an idea where to start.
The ones DT sells are very nice but 1.5 cm is going to be too long for my fingers and I can’t afford 4 titans for an experiment like this and I don’t think I’d like them in that location regardless. I definitely want one but there’s better places for it.
I’ll handle learning about coating them a bit later. I just need to get some idea what kind of magnet I need. This is a long term project. I have the next version of the tap preordered and it should be delivered early next year. I’m also excited for that but I’ve wanted to do the Tap 2 with magnets since I got it.
This kind of thing is actually one of my big body mod goals is magnetic points in key places where I can attach tech and other stuff.
I would think that’d have a lower limit of pressure. I’m certain any square inch of my butt sitting on the floor all day would be experiencing greater pressure than a few grams of pressure between a magnet and a very light object. It’s not a particularly small magnetic area so it could be further spread out from there.
If I use Cochlear implants as a large sample size for long duration wear of magnetic devices (average wear time for the processor is 10 hours a day and it’s attached magnetically). I could probably rough out some math on the weight and surface area of them. But there has to be an amount of pressure that isn’t a problem. I’d think issues wouldn’t occur if the skin isn’t deforming as a high level test.
For the cochlear implant not only is the pressure spread out over a much greater area because of the ring, but the strength of the magnet is greatly reduced because the plastic holds it away from the body. The internal mounting magnet is also screwed into bone to prevent it from crushing the skin from the inside.
So the ring is larger but I don’t have anything saying all models use the whole ring for the magnetic parts. The circle itself is probably an antenna. But I’d have to look at actual tear downs of it. My point is that as a blanket statement it’s not necessarily true and there is some combination of weight/surface area that doesn’t cause issues.
If I can get these out of the rubber housing that remains they’ll be even lighter and I think it can be done.
The magnet is in the center elevated a few millimeters above the flesh, and yeah the ring contains the coil.
Possible, a couple people have proposed much larger magnets, but we’re talking a few centimeter diameter to get the force distribution needed. It may be possible, but we’ll need to do the math. Having done it before I think you may be surprised
I agree a lot of consideration will need put into it but I’m not risk averse. I think if I put enough thought into it I can make it happen without any issues. It’s hard to overstate how light these are even with the thick rubber that still remains. I just don’t want to cut into that until I hear back from the company and they hopefully tell me where all the electronics are. I’m 90% sure the finger parts are just little accelerometers in an aluminum casing with a tiny bit of ferrous material on the bottom where it goes into the case.
I also have terrible health anxiety (why do I do this to myself) so I’d tap out way before there were any problems. Lol.
I have some itty bitty 3*1 mm magnets that are strong enough to stick to my xSIID where it is in my hand. Doesn’t deform the skin at all. I can’t even feel it. It reads at 50mg. Maybe I start by wearing that all day tomorrow and seeing if anything comes of it?
(I hadn’t actually considered them but I went to find them just now and was like “wonder if it sticks even a little” and it sticks a lot. They’re the smallest magnet I already own.)
But be careful sticking magnets to x series, the ferrite core is fragile, and that’s what the magnet pulls on
If it breaks your done
I’ve broken some shitty Chinese chips that way,
I stick very light magnets on from time to time, but I know each time could do bad things
Your mileage may vary
2, I came at magnets strictly for lifting and sticking things to my arms and wrist… and I’ve had very poor luck… the lifting magnets gets weaker very quickly with any separation you add, and arm tissue tends to be much thicker
The tissue death is a thing… I left something small on one of mine for 30-40 minutes on accident, and I had a bit of a black mark for a couple days
Maybe not then. Good to know they’re not super hardy. It makes sense, but good to know. This goal is probably more important to me than a single chip. But it’s my first so I kinda like it. I’ll decide later. I realized I can’t wear it tomorrow anyhow because I’ll be around dogs and I don’t want it to fall off and get eaten. As a brief proof of concept though that one worked.
I definitely want a couple magnets in my arm for holding crafting stuff for short periods of time. I have hellish luck with sewing needles and other small sharp things. Or tiny screws from projects. Ugh. My laptop case is down 2 screws from last time I upgraded it. Woops.
I get it, I want it to, I’m just trying to set reasonable expectations of how it might go
You said your not risk averse, I’m just giving my experiences
You mentioned sitting on your butt but that’s not a good way to imagine it, that’s inch and inches of flesh
Imagine a mm thick piece of play-do between 2 magnets… now imagine trying to get blood to flow into that section of tissue :-/
From previous talks about how cochlear implants attach… I think the most effective approach would to mount magents to arm/wrist bones…so that then only the outside of skin is getting squished, not pinched
but good luck getting a dr on board
For real. No doctor is going to do that. I wish. If I could find that then I’d be in business for a lot of things. I definitely understand why it’d be a potential problem from an anatomy standpoint. I just know there has to be a limit where it will work.
I don’t necessarily see why implanting into a bone would lead to less tissue compression though. It’d definitely be a lot more stable. Instead of the magnet pulling outwards, the skin just gets pushed inwards instead. All things being equal it should be the same amount of force. In either situation what skin and flesh can move out of the way will take the path of least resistance and whatever can’t will get pinched between the two. It’s really just finding the line of where the amount of force isn’t a problem either way.
I did find one case study regarding a bone mounted hearing aid and tissue necrosis but the person who experienced it had a lot of scar tissue on the site and it seems to have been a contributing factor. I need to go to bed but it seems like it’s a pretty rare thing. I’ll look for more later. So far I’ve seen nothing that’d dissuade me.
I do think it’s possible to design something that could work. Mounting the magnet to bone ensures it doesn’t move, and the external piece has a counter magnet design that basically centers itself over the implanted magnet perfectly. The part that touches tissue is padded. People do complain of pain wearing it long-term just like wearing over ear headphones can result in compression pain. But, I think there are possible ways something could be designed to work with minimal risk… but it seems one of the critical aspects to this concept would be to ensure the magnet couldn’t move around under the skin.
Since you wandered in here amal,
I’ve been curious about the concept of a flex format matrix of magnets… a bit more distributed surface, maybe working better for the odds and ends project stuff like screws and whatnot
But it’s still time limited of course, but I’d be happy at that point
That’s true RE: bed sores, but something like the Tap Strap I’m using has and 8, maybe 10 hour battery and would have to be removed to be recharged. It also can’t be worn when washing your hands, etc. I actually don’t even wear it into the bathroom because gross. Same with cooking. So there’s a lot of little things that go into it and reduce the chances of something like that happening. Bed sores often occur when there’s a lack of sensory information, an inability for the person to take preventative measures, and other health issues affecting blood flow. None of which would apply here.
I think my plan to keep them from moving once in place involves using a wider disc of silicon than is strictly needed to encase it to give the implant more surface area to resist moving around. I’m currently thinking having 3 of the 1*3mm magnets arranged in the disc would give it a lot of stability as an alternative or included strategy. But I’ll have to make some dummies and see how the TS2 balances out on that. And see if the silicone is strong enough to keep them from wanting to snap together, etc. For all I know the TS2 will try to center over just one of them instead of arranging them on the parameter. Etc. There will be lots of little things that go into the building phase.
Really it just has to stay more or less topside to make sure the gyroscopes and accelerometers are able to tell it what I’m doing.
I also have to get them out of their cases and get a final weight. Weighing them is hard because of the cord between them and trying to exclude the larger thumb piece.
Having them placed in bone is not going to happen. I can’t even get a professional to do a normal install in my state. I’d definitely consider that if it were an option. But I have pretty high standards for letting people do stuff to me. If I fuck me up, that’s fine. If someone else does, it’s not. Idk. My electric cholesterol is dumb.
Those are all things that are only putting pressure on 1 side of tissue
Magnets in this situation are PINCHING the skin, not just pressure
Graphic explaination I suppose
idk if you have internal or external genitals for this discussion,
But this is similar to why you aren’t supposed to wear a cock ring for longer than 15-30 minutes
Alternatively imagine a strong clothes pin half inside and half outside your nose, for long periods of time
Or even imagine the clothes pin thing on scrotum, it’s very thin skin being PINCHED, you could do it for a few minutes, but that section of skin isn’t going to get blood flow because the pressure vs a couple capillaries isnt even close, so skin will start to die after a while
Not a kink to be clear, just a analogy that came to mind lol
That’s not how tissue works. Bed sores usually happen over bony areas for a reason. The pressure is from both sides. In this case I’m using pressure and pinching interchangeably because in all these situations there’s an inside and outside force coming together over tissue. Sitting on the floor you got your butt bones. Bedsores are usually bony areas + bed = pressure that reduces blood flow to the area. But that’s not something anyone would call a pinch.
That said since I’m apparently not going to bed like I said I would I decided to see just how much of each finger piece is rubber. I got the pinky stripped down (and it still works even if it doesn’t work well since it won’t stay on). I got .86g of rubber off of it. The others probably have slightly more since they’re for the larger fingers.
That shows the side and the top. The bottom is just the top but slightly smaller. Probably for a final useable one I’d add some rubber back to the sides and bottom so it’s less tall.
Except for being the magnet where it sits into the case, I don’t know how much the bottom does function wise. If I find a broken one on Mercari or one someone just wants rid of I’ll get it and properly destroy it.
As someone with 20+ diy magnet implants over the years I’ll say it’s a bad idea. Magnets hurt when pulling hard and will cause internal bleeding, ask me how I know. Coating them is a PAIN and if you hit them wrong, let me tell you how bad a failed magnet can really be…
It’s different than say bed sores because it has no fatty tissue / muscle to soften the pressure. It hurts. Bad. I can’t even pick up another magnet for more than a few seconds without pain in my skin under the pinched area.
Overall I used to be stoked on magnets, now I don’t recommend them to anyone. It’s more harm than help.