Which chip do I need to buy for HID iClass DY? (New to this)

I just purchased a proxmark3 to play with so I am VERY VERY new to this.

I have a card I want to clone that says “HID iClass DY” and that scans as an iclass/picopass chip with the proxmark.

What am I looking for in a fob that can be disassembled or loose chip (or implant chip) to be able to clone this.

I want to put the chip into my cane (yeah, I’m old :P) so I can mess with my students by waving the cane at the access sensor that pops the door open, and the payment scanners on our coke machines. The ID card I’ll be cloning from responds as a pre-paid debit card and as a wireless ID that you slide over the external sensor to unlock doors.

Any guidance or advice would be great.

Thank you all for your time!

can you get a spare card?

My first thought would be to extract the chip (put the card in an acetone bath)
desolder from the antenna and attach to a new antenna ( grab another HF chip and antenna. links to follow if that sounds like it may suit your purpose) or reshape the original to fit in the cane

The cane I’m using has a decorative ring that hides about a .25" gap between the handle and shaft. That’s why my first impression is one of the implant chips would work. But I don’t know which one.

I’ll swing by my personnel office this week and see if I can get a blank one to play with.

I don’t speak gibberish…

A photo of the cane may help (I have an idea…or two)

I don’t have all the details, but my first impression is, I think a bespoke option will be your best bet.

Sounds like a good plan.

One note - some DY cards have encrypted data that can’t be cloned. You might have limited success cloning them.

.25" = one quarter of an inch.

I don’t write gibberish.

image

The decorative ring I have the arrow pointed at has a gap between the handle piece and the cane’s main shaft. It’s about 1/4th of an inch wide. It’s the only gap in this manufacturer’s canes that you could put something in without having to cut into the wood to make a deeper groove. The decorative facing on the top of the handle is not removable.

That’s why I was hoping one of the implant chips would fit, it seemed like the smallest answer.

I also looked at putting a chipped ring (size 4-6) under the decorative one, but they’re to tall unfortunately.

I’ve got a spare card from work currently being dissolved, but I “think” the chip may be too wide. And I’m not convinced I can soldier the antenna back on very well (hands shake).

Best I’ve got at the moment. And thanks to anyone who helps.

I hope all of you have a wonderful holiday!

Unfortunately I wont be able to help too much more, because I only understand civilised measurements.

I do have a couple of thoughts though.

Bearing in mind, the first priority should be to maintain the integral strenth of the cane.

drilling a hole for an xSeries to be inserted may work with a snug fit may work, but im not sure how this will affect the strength of the cane.
also in that orientation, you would need a powerful reader.

Similarly, if you were to inlay the xSeries in the cane, however this would be easier to present to a reader.

Although, this may be an option

Does the head seperate from the cane at either of these junctions?

Im not sure if thats what you were meaning here, or just the Dwarf head

If It does, potentially slipping something like this over the join may be an option

Screenshot_20221122_112007

otherwise, if you think you could do some winding with you shaky hands, you may be able to unwind from a similar antenna as above and then re-wind that into the gap you mentioned,

if this was metric, I maybe able to visualise how this would fit…

If the winding fits, try to get sombody to help solder and hide the chip

The cane above the decorative ring is a solid piece with a long screw that fits a very deep nut in the handle of the cane.

It’s removable by turning the entire handle like a key a few dozen times to unscrew it from the shaft.

The dwarf face by itself cannot be removed.

When its screwed in, the gap left inside that decorative ring (which acts as a spacer) is about 6.5mm wide.

What I’m trying to figure out is which xSeries chip to get if I can’t get the spare card in there. The screw shaft is also conductive, so I’m wondering if I wrap the copper coil around the shaft if I’ll get better reception, or just an electromagnet.

I had to swear off metric after the mars climate orbiter.

I’ve also reached out the man who made the cane to see if I can get just a handle with the face detached so I can drill a hole behind that and attach the face later. (Either with a rare earth magnet to hold it on REALLY well, while still being removable, or permanently)

Okay, now we are speaking the same language, I am back onboard.

Personally, I would be writing off the thought of an xSeries sized implant, there will be a coupling / range hurdle that I feel will be too far.
Especially with this plan.

I really don’t think this plan will work through all that metal, but I stand to be proven wrong.

This (below) would be my persoanl recommendation of the path you should be going down

You can find these for quite cheap in a variety of sizes, and will almost be a plug an play.
IF you can find the correct diameter, just swap out and solder your chip from the dissolved card.

If you need a hand with the assembly, I think a quick visit to a maker space or similar, you will find someone willing and able to help ( I know I would be willing )

HOWEVER
If you cant find a “plug and play” antenna of the correct dimensions, you could wind the copper antenna from you dissolved card into that ~6.5mm gap, and resolder the chip, and in effect, achieve the same result as above.

If i was near by you, I would happily help you with this project, but I’m not even on the same continent, so this is the best I can do for you unfortunately.

Even Now, I am not certain my proposed plan will work, due to the way the antenna will need to be presented to the reader, but I still fell this will have a better chance of success.
Before pushing you too far down this path, I would prefer to do some actual testing rather than theoretical surmising, but I am away from home and the things I can test with in a similar fashion to your setup ( I have some adhoc stuff I can play around with for the time being to get a better idea, but not ideal )

Let me find you a link with some different sized antennas for you

:hamster_emoji_gif:

Faster than I thought ( Sounds like a quote from my Mrs )

Here you go ( Sounds like a quote from me to my Mrs )

NZ$ 3.80 40%OFF | 5pcs Diameter 9-39mm 13.56MHz UID Changeable IC Card Module 1k Card UID Cob Chip
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOW0lX2

So I have with me:
my Phone
my Flipper
a Key Fob Sized Field detector
an HF+LF fob keyring ( Appox Similar size as may suit your cane :man_shrugging: ~25-30mm)

I simulated a “Low Power” Reader with my phone
I simulated a “High Power” Reader with my Flipper
I simulated an HF Antenna and chip mounted on your cane with my Fob keyring and presented it to each reader at 90⁰ i.e how I expect you will need to present your cane to the reader.

My phone would read the Fob Keyring at ~10mm
My Flipper would read the Fob Keyring at ~15mm

Very similar results with my Key Fob Sized Field detector

I was pleased with that, and I would call that some reasonable testing.
I am quietly optimistic if you choose to follow this path

At this stage, I can’t think of anything else I can do to help you.

I hope this is of some use to you and your project, and I will be following your progress, and looking forward to seeing what you end up with

Trying several things over my December break. (The joys of being a professor).

I was able to clone my new ID card onto my “lost” /cough old one.

I’m dissolving the old card now to pull the bits out.

I also found the cane maker who made my cane. I’ve got a new handle on order without the face attached. I’m going to drill a cavity into that handle and use a rare earth magnet to hold the face on once I get whatever chip I end up using inside of it. That will put only wood on 5 of the 6 sides (if you think of it as a cube) from the chip and wrapped antenna. It will also put the drilled hole past the screw joint that holds all the weight in the cane, so it shouldn’t have to weaken it.

I asked if they could custom cast me a face piece out of a solid copper but that was a no-go.

If you feel the aliexpress chips you linked will work on the listed chipset, I’ll go ahead and buy one pack of each size and use the largest antenna I can get to fit.

That’s all I’ve got at the moment.

And thank you very much for your help!