Wondering which chip I should purchase?

Yup, no stripe on the back, it was a tap to unlock the door card

Ok thank you, that was very helpful


No it is like tap to pay, I don’t insert it anywhere, even to recharge it

So what can be cloned lol
And it seems like the NexT is good regardless?

hi - I am new to the NFC chip for implant topic - but, want to explore using it for a few scenarios. I have read thru the matrix page - but, still have a few outstanding ?s before I make a decision on which one is right for me.

Perhaps someone here is able to provide some input. Thanks in advance

As I am looking at Vivokey vs xDF2 – sounds like one of them might work for my senarios (below) - but, not 100% sure. The big question for me for Vivokey is that it seems to be tightly coupled with needing to have an account on their domain through their app and without it, Vivokey is non-functional and unusable. Am I correct ?

A few use case scenarios, I am looking to implement via NFC

  1. Public, private keys for ssh and similar token based authentication.
  2. Be able to store encrypted small size data chunks for recall and use. Access to read/write to Memory access.
  3. Store vcard or plain text info
  4. MFA support for pc, web sites, and other logins
  5. Be able to interact with rf enabled deadbolt locks
  6. Work area access doors. I realize this rfid. So may be a challenge with this.

Welcome @NixieGeek

First do you mean the Vivokey Spark 2, if so this will not suit all your use cases. The Vivokey Apex that is soon to be released will have much more functionality that should cover most if not all your use cases eventually. I will assume you are asking about the apex for the rest of this post but it is not out yet so the details will be loose as I am not “in the know” beyond teasers DT have released on the forum.

I think you are saying it is RFID not NFC? If so this is a very common misconception, so common in fact that we will usually understand what you mean. Having said that it is in everyone’s best interest to “nip it in the bud” :smiley: so here is a post with more details:

Now I will go through each of your use cases for you hopefully it helps.

If you want to just store them securely the DF2 should work fine. If you want some sort of token exchange then the apex will likely be better suited for this. Having said that the DF2 has some encrypted session features that I am not to clear about that might apply here, sorry cant give you more info.

The DF2 is perfect for this, It has 8kB of storage and can store multiple encrypted files. The apex is also perfect and without going in to details has much more storage capacity.

Both the DF2 and apex should be perfectly capable of storing a vcard or any other NDEF data for you to scan with mobile phones.

I think the apex is your best bet here as I believe this is an out of the box use case, obviously depending on the sites supported MFA methods.

This depends on the lock. Each lock supports different protocols, if you are buying the lock to fit the implant I do not think it matters which implant you get from DT.

This much like the above depends on the type of chips your work access system uses. If it is LF then the NExT or xEM or flexEM (all have a t5577 LF chip but the NExT also has a HF ntag216). We would need more info to help you out with this one. If it is LF it is likely the t5577 based implants will work but not a guarantee.

Hope that helps :smiley:


@leumas95 - thank you for providing this input. A few follow up questions please. But, first, I was actually referring to Vivokey Spark 2 (sorry I was not specific in my earlier post).

it seems that Vivokey’s usability is heavily reliant on their proprietary backend webservices, the phone app and more. For me to leverage, Vivokey APEX or Spark 2, it requires me to leverage their services - Is that a fair understanding. I am not keen on “binding” myself to a proprietary service , but, perhaps there’s some freedom in the vivokey platform that supports non-vivokey apps and services to integrate. This is my biggest concern.

I duly note your comments in line to my other questions - thanks again for that.

With xDF2, and MFA, hoping there are ways people have accomplished this in a DIY manner - any thoughts ?


1 Like

With the spark yes. It is a fully integrated system. You can still enroll the spark with locks that support it but everything else is through the app and backend services.

The apex is a smart card that will provide access to to those same services, but it also allows the loading of apps including DIY apps :heart: VivoKey is writing some apps but the whole thing leverages a platform Fidesmo that also have apps and a developer SDK etc.

I have many thoughts :sweat_smile: this is actually something I plan on doing but it would be for services I run. A DIY solution is unlikely to work with anything out of the box. Where as the apex can run something that acts like a yubikey or even emulate a Tesla keyfob etc.

Glad my ramblings helped.

@leumas95 - thank you. I will have to then explore Apex or xDF2. Thanks

1 Like

@anon3825968 had similar “concerns”
if you haven’t already read THIS, where Amal and others “ease” his concerns.
There is an opt out feature, but it is a one way, one time kinda thing

1 Like

Just to give a brief overview of that opt out.

As sold you must use the Fidesmo tools to load apps onto the apex due to super secret keys that among other things is why the apex may get payment support.

You can opt out of that by having those keys errased and you would control the chip entirely.

But if for some reason Fidesmo stopped existing your apps on the implant should still work, it’s not like the spark where it’s cool extra features would be usless without there authentication servers (depending on the apps loaded onto the apex).

Whoah… harsh. :man_shrugging:
How about, Still handy-capable :wheelchair:
You could go to github and still use on your wordpress, discourse etc…

1 Like

Can you? I thought that integration was via the VivoKey servers? Without the Vivokey app and server how would word press know how to read your implant? You cant just wave it at the screen :stuck_out_tongue: or can you? :crazy_face:

You could still enroll it on locks etc.

I also updated it to be a tad less harsh sounding.

You are most likely correct, but I really cant see Amal doing that, so I was just clasping at straws to defend…
Worse case scenario, would be dropping Fidesmo but Vivokey would carry on…Not that any of this is going to happen…

1 Like

Ohh to be clear I am not advocating against the Spark 2. The product gives up some direct user control to make something that easy to use and works out of the box, it’s great!

I was just addressing this:

As for some this is a factor:

1 Like

All fair and valid points my friend

1 Like

@Pilgrimsmaster - thank you for sharing - that thread was an interesting read and exactly touches what I was scratching my head for.


@leumas95 - thanks and yes, understood.


2 posts were split to a new topic: DesFire Project(s) & call for ideas :bulb:

I placed the order for the xDF2 kit last night at DT site. I am hoping to read thru the DS and appnotes in the nxp site - and I know I wont understand most of it right away and will prepare myself to make a few iterations of reading. I am consequently in the “not knowing what I don’t know” mode - but, like with any exploration/learning, I am hoping to discover and learn. Which also means, I am a bit weary getting that chip implanted. Curious to know what journeys of thought process other newbies such as me have gone through to bite the bullet for implanting…

I am not much of an analysis-paralysis kinda guy, but, this one is a new domain even for a geek-at-heart in me.

Separately, I placed an order for a Proxmark3 RDV4 @ hacker warehouse. I was looking for just the PM3 RDV4 kit here in DT, but, all I could find was a bundle of some kind and that too was kept showing as out of stock. Curious to learn the capabilities of that device and its API stack - I see there’s a github repo for it.

thought I’d share an update and perhaps seek any input from y’all.

1 Like