Do you know if I would be able to clone my hyundai sonata proximity key? It is the type of key that I never have to take out of my pocket to drive. I am new to the biohacking game and trying to figure out what kind of use case I could have and what implant I should buy.
These keys are active RF devices and not in any way the same as our implantable RFID transponders. There is no way to “clone” what that key does into a passive, magnetically coupled device like our implants.
What can be done however, is you can order a spare key from the dealer, then hack that key fairly easily. The key has a battery inside. Once connected, that key will start transmitting. The car hears those transmissions when the key is in close proximity and enables the doors to unlock and the car to start.
The hack would be to open the key, and insert a relay between the key’s battery and the key. That way the key would be powered off (basically the same as being out of range) until the implant was presented to a compatible reader. Then the relay would engage and connect the battery to the key. Then the key would start transmitting, and the car would “see” the key is in range, and enable you to open the doors and start the car.
The only wildcard here is how to disengage the key and shut down the car. Since nobody has performed this hack and shared the outcome with us yet, the question remains… if the battery is disconnected and the car no longer “sees” the key in range, will the car automatically lock itself and shut down access to the ignition, or will it just remain unlocked? What happens if you walk away from your car without locking it? Will it lock itself up after you leave?
Thank you . Will have to digest this one. Any further recommendation appreciated
I think the important thing right now is to answer the question - what happens when you walk away from your car with your key in your pocket?
What if you leave your car running and walk away?
What if you leave your car unlocked and walk away?
Does the car stop the engine and lock itself? Does it just sit there and do nothing?
Without these answers, I really shouldn’t suggest a solution. If we can get these answers, I could outline a project or maybe even design a kit for this application.
Thank you for responding.
First though, did you actually receive my earlier reply…about the ‘senior’ issue?
To answer your Q’s:
- The car does not auto lock when you walk away; only if you push button on door or fob. I typically use the door option.
- It’s a hybrid, and when stopped goes into EV mode, ie, it’s ON but engine is not running. I’ve often exited the car not knowing it was still on. But the car won’t permit locking unless the power OFF button is first pushed. Safeguard!
- I leave the car unlocked/garaged every night.
FYI: I phoned US Honda Techie; young guy totally unaware of the implant option… but he LIKES IT. My local dealership was unaware also, but think it’s a COOL IDEA.
I’m working to help your cause, Amal (I’ve done the same for many companies around the globe. It’s what I do…and I’m really good at it).
If you are willing to use me as a test subject and can actually make this work, I would like permission to reach out to my regional media/TV contacts to score headlines for ‘the cause.’
I did get your note about seniors… I agree. We’ve worked with a group before about giving seniors and handicapped people who have issues manipulating keys.
Oh, btw, I’ve taken your phone number out of the public post
I think it’s interesting that you can power down the car and lock it without using the buttons on the key itself… this is good news.
I think it might be a good idea to get a spare key from your dealer, have it programmed to work with the car, then ship it to me. I will create a solution using it, then ship it back to you… or possibly if you can get enough media coverage, I can fly out and help install it… make sure it works, etc.
Thank you for the reply. That is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure. The hack on the other hand is an interesting idea. I will get a spare key and run some tests disconnecting the battery and see how it responds. If I end up going through with it, I will provide feedback.
Amal, I had the same thought… Yes. I will order a replacement key and have it programed from the car’s data base. In fact, a few days ago I phoned the dealer about this. A salesman told me a device (costing “$10K”) the size of a suitcase is used to link the info held by the car to the new fob; the process takes around hour. If so, I could then send it to you for linking to your chip. Afterwards, of course, you’d be able to steal my new car …but you seem like such a nice fellow ; -]
Also, please consider the following options:
A. Travelling to VA, elsewhere, etc:
Great idea. In fact, you might want consider (your time permitting) using a VA trip as an opportunity to begin building (gradually, one region at a time) a national volunteer network of “feet-on-ground” advocates to help promote/fascilitate widespread acceptance of the your concepts/products.
These individuals would learn 1) how to write releases, 2) create/manage a media contact base, 3) organize annual area-specific, ‘AMAL-gamator’ presentation events, 4) secure & staff booth space at existing tech/craft shows, 5) utilize & distribute product/cause-related promotional collateral materials, 6) arrange to be on scheduled docket as guest speaker (fraternal/sororal orgs, health and well-being associations, retirement communities, and even faith-based groups, including ministerial associations (to pre-empt 666 religious extremists)).
B. Revenue generation ad hoc:
You have to get paid and the above-mentioned possibilities must be funded. Initially, you may need to consider the long-term value of a loss-leader approach in order to jump start an expansion initiative. That said, every prospective Amal-gamation [pls read: integratiion of product/cause benefits with consumer express needs] foot soldier/storm trooper (whatever) would need to demonstrate their worth by pledging to raise $X funding needed to justify the expense of an area-wide Amal event, ie, they would need to be disciples, as well as discipled, in the how-to-whys of fundraising via ticket sales, area foundation support, gov’t funding, corporate sponsorship and individual major donor gifts. The last two groups are the most significant and, fortunately, the easiest to cull from the universal herd in terms of creating a distinct, highly specific supporter base (not to mention a source of talented volunteers!).
Sorry for the brain dump; it’s what I do.
But, if any of the above resonates with you, let’s begin laying plans a trip to VA … and beyond.
Hah good brain dump. These ideas in one form or another have been kicked around so it’s good to see others validate these concepts.
Let’s focus first on the car project… I would very much like to see the results and have video of the project. I will film the project on my side, then you can film the installation into your car and use. The one difficulty may be that the antenna for this reader is connected to the control box via coax and may require desoldering / resoldering in order to install in the car, depending on how/where you want it. In my car, it was possible to just snake the small thin RF-58 coax into the dash along the driver’s side where the dashboard meets the window column. I was able to just place the antenna on the windshield glass with silicone and let the coax run to the void up under the dashboard just under the steering wheel. That area is usually great for these things and there are typically buss connectors for power there as well.
Amal…are responding to Sherrythere (Jon) or Joe?
I’m not familiar with “the film” or the other references. Maybe you can expand…or un-digest the info. Being more of promoter type than techie leaves me bit beyond the pale regarding insider biohack nomenclature. But I’m a quick study.
I really feel foolish asking you to take time to clarify. Even so, bear with me please regarding the following questions:
Concerning “the car project” what ‘results’ are you referring to? (ie, do “results”=waiting to see if the coded fob I’m to send you, which you’ll use to program implantable chip, actually works prior to implant?).
Does, “I have video of the project” mean you have a for-general-consumption video you’re going to send me?
Does " I will film the project on my side" mean you are going actually to video the procedure on your end about how to make my Honda operational?
Does “you can film the installation into your car and use” mean that once I receive your instructional video, I am then to use it to create an additional how-to video on my end, only specifically for a 2017 Accord Hybrid Touring, for local promotional purposes and media consumption?
Finally, are you saying to make this work will require an in-car installation of a device in addition to the implanted chip…and that the implant alone cannot be substituted for the fob?
Thanks for bearing with. You can tell, I’m still chasing the curve in these matters. But not for long.
sorry no no I kinda mixed things all together… your original thread about your Accord was similar to Joe’s so I had you jump over here… then I promptly made things confusing
My goal has been and is still to make a kind of “how to” video or “instructable” for hacking a “keyless” car system to work with implants. First, find someone with a “keyless” system in their car, where their key stays in a pocket but they can lock/unlock the car and drive it away without putting the key into any kind of hole or slot in the car. Then, work with them to build a demo. The end result will be either still photos or HD video of the key hack, installation in the car, and use of it to enable/disable the key.
So, the idea would be for you to send me your spare key. I hack an xEM Access Controller with toggle relay to the key. I ship it to you. You install in the car, putting the antenna up against the windshield & control box with hacked key under the dash., you take HD video of this process. You then video yourself using it to enable the key with an xEM implant, then get in and drive away. Fun!
Oh, and to be clear, the hack works like this; the implant cannot talk to the car. This is not possible. The xEM implant can be used with our xEM Access Controller, which performs authentication and external device actuation. The xEM Access Controller is then hacked into your spare key, connecting the battery when your implant is authenticated, then disconnecting the battery in your spare key the next time a successful authentication occurs… so it will toggle the spare key’s power source on and off with each successive scan of the implant. This will mimic the key being present and out of range. So, in the end, you will have an xEM Access Controller and a spare key fob basically glued to it with wires going to the access controller. That will all get installed into your car and you will scan your implant on the xEM Access Controller’s antenna winding to toggle the spare key which is now installed inside your car under the dashboard.
This is me using an xEM Access Controller connected to a spare key fob for my 2004 VW… it’s not “keyless” so all this hack does is unlock my door and let me in, but the concept is still the same.
Got it. Thanks again for your time.
I know an AV guy able to create a v. high quality video of the process…he moved from CA to VA…lives with his folks (our friends). Would you be able to comp him a hacking kit (or discount it) in return for his services? I think I can get him really cheap, but will check with first. It would be a real coup to bring him aboard! Your thots?
Yeah I’d comp him a kit easy.
Amal…just thinking: Can you devise a way for the antenna etc to be BATTERY powered…like the original fob? The dual need to wire directly to the car, in addition to the implant, could serve a serious threat nationwide rollout, especially with regard to leased vehicles. The wiring aspect of the project per se could very well render any larger scale promotional campaign a nonstarter.
Nope, that’s really not an option. Implanted batteries pose serious risk… nobody wants a Samsung Note 7 situation exploding in their hand.
The only wiring to the car necessary is for power… nothing more complicated than plugging it into the cigarette lighter if more complicated wiring is not possible.
Amal… I wasn’t thinking of implanting a battery in my hand ( or hinder, or anywhere else!).
Rather (but I’m sure you’ve already thought of this) I’m referring to powering the device that remains in the car, that which you mentioned is to be plugged into the cig lighter socket (or hard wired in). So, why not use a small battery vs. the car as the power source…and include the battery in the install kit?
Ah I see… well the passive reader to read the implant requires much more power than a battery can supply long term. Generating a magnetic field that a passive transponder can induct power from at range require much more power than a transmitter in a car key pinging out a few data packets ever couple seconds.
Amal, please bear in mind my primarily concern at this point is marketability. Having to string additional wires inside a car is, I believe, a liability to widespread acceptance - and, trust me, you really don’t want to exhaust the valuable time, thought, resources, etc demanded by a false start if you can help it. They are painful, disheartening and expensive. A motivated volunteer sales force requires the diametric opposite.
People today are irritated enough having to deal with a tangled USB cord in their cars (if they don’t have a mobile bluetooth or wireless connection). And those who drive a high-end/status vehicle are not going to look kindly on the appearance of a cable/reader/antenna if they consider it unsightly. Thus the issues: convenience & appearance.
Now, regarding your line above, “more power than a battery can supply long term,” these days nothing is long term - and folks have actually grown accustomed to it. Just ask my 96 year father-in-law how long his hearing aid battery lasts ; - ]
But having to change out something the size of a 9v battery every month? That won’t be a dealbreaker. It can be done the same time they replace the batteries in their wireless LED strings for the pantry, etc, or their smoke alarms, remote controls, 3D glasses, fitbit, etc. Furthermore, if YOUR battery were rechargeable, the cig lighter socket could then be used to keep a replacement battery charged (and, for better or worse, would also add value as a ‘conversation piece’).
Again, the goal is to facilitate maximum public acceptance (or better: minimize rejection) of a truly wonderful, cutting edge concept, which, like every novel idea throughout history, is sure to cut down at the outset by many, and for all the wrong reasons.
P.S. Yesterday I spoke with the aforementioned AV guy, an expert at creating promo videos - and he is excited about being involved. Not at all surprising. If you and your disciples can revisit and resolve the ‘convenience and appearance’ issues, the little folks like us can do the rest.
P.S.S. One of my first promotional objectives would include linking your product with a major sponsor - like Honda. Major sponsors are always the first to ask, “what’s in it for me?” The an$wer is obvious! Of course all such courses of action will need to be pre-approved by you.
All of this…for your consideration.