6 more implants installed at once, lots of associated questions and planning

Projects
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Been planning for a while, asking a lot of annoying questions here and there, figured I’ll just make one last thread leading up to D-day round 2, and recovery

Have various thoughts, questions and concerns I hope to work out before then, otherwise It’ll be more of a leap of faith

Apologize if what I post is scattered or jumbled, kind of a stream of consciousness when I stress, and I stress when I try to over plan

Have an appointment with installer in a week, and a week after that before I have to go back to work
Had a brief consult with him and all mentioned locations seem doable from his perspective, but covering my ass in case he’s exaggerating his capability or understanding by trying to talk to you guys as the source of knowledge on the subject

strictly left hand / wrist / arm locations for a couple reasons, I can explain if need be, but I’m fairly motivated for only left locations at the moment

Currently have 3 x series, and getting 5-6 more so isn’t a series concern recovery wise, rather the more alternative locations to try and squeeze them all in but not interfere with each other (I do have intended uses for most of these)

I’m doing it all at once for a single slightly worse recovery rather than multiple sessions and multiple recoveries, there also a bit of a discount of one and done for installer, but I don’t want to do something outright stupid to save a buck or a a few minutes
But if it just hurts a bit more for a few extra days I’d rather just get it all over with

Getting a payment flex using the DT flex install needle,
A lot of questions about recovery and placement on this front

I keep seriously floundering on where to put the flex,
Either top of my hand pinky bone - ring bone area
Or full knife edge on the side of my hand
(Sorry I keep asking about this a lot, lots of over thinking)

Most of the x series can be fairly easily removed and possibly reinstalled elsewhere if I need, but the flex not so much, so that part of why I keep ruminating on it

Top of the hand seems a safer bet, but knife edge would be more convenient, if it isn’t problematic or painful to rest on it, but I’ve been getting conflicting information here

Once in a while if I lean on the edge of my hand and roll it to the side, I can feel my xEM in L4 kinda mash against bone and it doesn’t feel great, the idea of an implant on the edge of my hand where I often lean/rest some weight causes some apprehension, but it’s a very different design, and I have a lot more tissue there

Addition concern is, knife edge appears to be a lot looser flesh and possibly prone to a little bit of flexing of the implant and don’t want to cause a fatigue failure, but then again it’s only good for 3 years either way

Current plan / option 1
Xg3 middle of fore-arm
Xm1 in L1
xEM in L2
Payment flex in L3/4
Next in L11 (under thumb bone)
Spark 2 bottom of wrist on the inside
(Gotta admit I’m worried about being pretty close to radial artery)
xNT bottom of wrist outside

Second option if flex in knife edge a good idea
Xg3 middle of fore-arm
Xm1 in L1
xEM in L2
xNT in L3 (little worried about it being a bit too close to the flex pay which is also Hf, but it is 90° offset)
Flex pay knife edge
Next in L11 (under thumb bone)
Spark 2 bottom of wrist outside

There is a 3rd option also if x series in knife edge are better than flex, can list if desired but I think probably the least popular idea

I’m not really worried about the multiple x series being too much pain / recovery, my previous 3 were pretty uneventful, I’ve never been one to have a vaso or reflex reaction so I’m not super worried about it, but I’ll take what steps I can to reduce it happening due to an “extended” session

The flex is a lot more intensive, and the recovery is a bit more vague, but I think a week is more than enough

I’d be lying if I said that knife edge doesn’t look a lot more painful, because of more nerves and more difficult to tent skin, but it WOULD hide the scar a little better

I know if I did the xg3 in L11 I might get some sense out of it, but it would be stick to a lot of gun stuff I do and would be very in opportune

Various things

I’m not currently planning on using anything for pain, he has no real experience with injecting lido since it isn’t really something he’s allowed to do, he’s not against it, but him not having experience makes me rather just grit and bear it I guess,
Does have topical I believe he said, unsure if I should consider

Planning to try to record a good deal if not all of the install, but I don’t think I’m allowed a camera person because Covid

I’m planning to elevate, ice, lightly wrap and take ibuprofen to help minimize swelling afterwards like my initial install

Since there’s 7 packages, I’m considering opening the main bag ahead of time and only taking the still individually sealed injectors, thoughts? It’s 7x the amount of clutter and stuff he will be ignoring to us his own anyways, but I’d hate to ruin the weaker packages sterile seal to save 5 minutes

I’m back and forth on prenatal vitamins, I have a tendency to keloid and also form skin tags fairly easy, so part of me is concerned prenatals might amplify this in a negative manner?
Alternatively
With 7 stabs, my body would probably be grateful
For extra building material to repair the damage

Edited to add

Do I start with the flex or x series?
If I start with x series, I can work up to the higher pain easier, But if I only get 1 installed I’d rather it be the flex because I have a long break right now to recover

All I can think of for now, but I promise there’s always more

I am trying to learn and read and be a contributing member of our little circle, so I seriously appreciate you guys putting up with me and answering my stupid last minute questions and overthinking

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Iirc Amal has said that the sterile pouches are quite fragile and the external polybag helps to protect them. I don’t remember if there was a second polybag inside protecting just the implant, but I don’t think so. Fwiw, my installer made sure to use sterile scissors to open that main polybag, so I’d personally not want to open it just to save time / space.

That really depends on your pain tolerance. Also, if it’s 5% (which it probably is) it won’t do a massive amount, even if you kept it on properly for 2-3 hours… I’m a wimp / get vasovagal reflexes so I’d use numbing gel, but I have access to the 10% stuff.

For a point of reference, I know someone who got 5 xSeries put in at once, who used 5% for about an hour and said it didn’t really do anything. He was lying down the entire time so I can’t comment on the reflex part though (installer’s recommendation from the beginning).

To see one potential flex recovery, see @Eyeux’s thread:

Have a look at each day. Note that it was kinda a rough install, and a vein was probably nicked.

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Good enough for me, not opening

Don’t know how to feel here,
I like veins not being cut, and the “how not to cut a vein” is missing in my mental check list, so that’s worrying
But
At the same time, it looks like it did little to nothing to complicate recovery?

@Eyeux
Can you talk about hitting / not hitting veins?

Got me a little concerned on that front

I think that’s part of why I ask a millions questions from all perspectives and contingencies, understanding and knowledge helps quell fear and I feel like fear is what would make me have a vaso

For what it’s worth, installer has mentioned repeatedly that we’ll see how I feel with each step, so it’s not like he’s going to make me continue if it goes south lol

But with how fast he did my precious 3, I’ll be done before I can really react I think

Adding a new question,

Do I start with the flex or x series?
If I start with x series, I can work up to the higher pain easier

But if I only get 1 installed I’d rather it be the flex because I have a long break right now to recover

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That’s something your installer needs to worry about, not you :wink:
If he knows his job well, he will know how to avoid it or at least how to handle it, if it happens - and as far as I know, it’s not such a big deal. Bleeds a bit more than planned, but has little effect on the healing itself :wink:

Totally, and I like the tons of questions you ask here - the better you understand a procedure, the easier it may be (at least it’s that way for me).
But another thing that helps against the fear - trust your installer. If I get it right, he already did some installs on you? So you know he is competent, has years or decades of experience, does similar stuff every day… all that should help to reduce fear, simply because you can hand over the responsibility for the procedure itself to your installer. That’s actually my “quality test” for bodymodders - if I can’t completely trust them, I’m not their customer :wink:

Hmmmm… not sure about that. I usually get things done the other way round, because pain tends to get worse (so, just more intense) on me after some time. On tattoos, outlines first, shading later (wouldn’t make any sense the other way round :smile: ). On scarification main (deeper) lines first, details later. And on piercings, if getting several done at once, the first one always hurts least, at least for me.
So it might be a good idea to start with the flex - it will be the most intense one, certainly, and after you “survived” that, all the others might be easier to take. Ideally, your body will be throwing endorphines at you, so you barely notice the x-series stuff at all :wink:

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Have you seen this video ( @Vicarious I believe )
Removal and replacement, the replacement was smaller so went in more easily

I have linked to the time of the removal

Remember, Both locations are viable, ( Position #4 & #5 so you just need to decide which one will suit you better.

Not particularly scientific, but you could try cutting out a piece of plastic or 3D printing a Flex surrogate and taping it in place and “wear” it for a day and see how you feel about it…

dt_implant_kit.stl.zip

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Many times lol, been trying to watch and absorb everything thing I can on flex placement and install

Nor saying it can’t be done, but it’s definitely more involved than a small hole and squeezing a x series out like a pimple

Putting something back into the pocket looked easy enough, but getting it out looked like some work

I kind of did that for the x series

But I don’t have a lot of context or reference what a flex will feel like being pressed upon

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I’m surprised more people haven’t shared experiences or context for knife edge installs and what it might feel like to lean on it or anything like that.

I don’t have one, but I can say that putting straight pressure on the flexNExT on my wrist is really not uncomfortable at all. It’s not really noticeable from a pain perspective unless I’m really pushing it towards the original incision site or if I try to lift it from below the implant. So if I had to guess, a knife edge implant would be pretty safe to have in that section of hand - the extra fattiness will likely prevent you from being able to catch it or move it around too much, so I don’t think it would be too uncomfortable for leaning on or anything like that.

Take that with a grain of salt, since I don’t have one to confirm that. I’m planning on getting on eventually, so I’ve thought about this for my own experiences, but I thought I’d share them with you too. If it helps, it helps :woman_shrugging:

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This is very helpful, this is what I’m looking to hear

I’m starting to lean towards option 2 and do the knife edge install

Remaining hesitation is fatigue failure from movement of flesh

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Yep, it’s me :smiley:

“VivoKey” pre-alpha implant replaced with the “VivoKey Flex One” beta implant… both still work!

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@Vicarious,
Flipping thru you’re videos, looks like you have a payment conversion in the knife edge of your hand,

How does it feel? Any issues?

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Yep, I’m the first with the contactless payment implant :smiley:
Same as with my other 26 implants, I don’t feel it unless I touch it… It feels fine, I use it daily, no issues so far.

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Do you ever lean or put pressure on the side of your hand where the payment flex is? How does that feel?

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I just looked at it… if I lean on the knife edge of my hand, then the implant gets pushed up, I don’t notice it at all :slight_smile:

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That’s very good to hear

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That actually makes a lot of sense.

The one thing to consider here is also proximity.
One of the main issues with multiple simultaneous installs is that if one gets infected, the odds are that it will spread.
And having your immune system on overcharge by the many installs does increase the odds as well.

That said, it is still doable, as long as you are aware of the risk and take enough precautions to mitigate them.

This is a doable place, but I do reccomend against it, just because of so many times you rest that area against edges (table, keyboard, etc) without ever realizing… until you put something there.

Think that’s because some people seems to have it there successfully… but people don’t take into account their own lifestyles.

If you want an easy test… smear some removable paint where you want your flex and go about your day,.

Then take a look of how many places now have paint around your house… and how many of those are hard edges.

Exactly my point.
Also, the additional tissue on the knife’s edge is good fox xSeries installs, where the issue is to press them against the bone.

For a flex, it makes no difference: One well placed misfortuitous hard edge blow there might break things. One unlucky side-sliding press might rupture the internal pocket…

The dangers for a flex are quite different than the ones for a glass pill…

I’m terribly short in time now… but will try to give this more attention later on!

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I guess I’ll explain to clarify for future

A large chunk is, my left hand/wrist was pretty badly messed up, and as much as it doesn’t bother me on the regular, it’ll never be 100% and I’ll always kind of know and feel that way

Giving my left hand the ability to do things my right can’t, kinda playfully makes up the difference

Along with having one hand I don’t have to worry about, when I play with my crazy dog and he’s chewing on my hand

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Sorry about splitting my reply.
Now I’m finally back home!

That’s even more interesting/beautiful!!
Very nice thought!! :smiley:

I always prep up the area right before starting, which includes opening up the outer containers, even laying onto a sterile field some sterile pads. Adding lubricant to a sterile field, etc…

Of course you should sanitise your hands and the field first, and then get rid of the less sanitised packaging, placing the objects into sanitised spaces (I personally use metal plates cleaned with clorhexidine for that).
Then you can wash your hands again.

But that is something your installer should be worried about, and he should only open them right before the install anyway, while setting up the space.
Removing the large boxes before getting to the installation place might only turn the internal packaging into un-sanitised wrapping, allowing for cross contamination.

Yep. that is important to avoid cross contamination.

Not my field of expertise.
My last implant (which @DonFire mentioned already) was the first time I used them.
The healing there went great… but so did every other time I did stuff and not took any prenatals. So hard to say anything really.

If that is your concern, I would do the other way around.
The bigger the pain you feel, the stronger will be your natural anesthetic reaction (Endorphines, Adrenalin, etc). Those will linger on for a while, albeit being topic.

Also, experience of pain of repetitive equal or lower intensity tends to trigger a response of the brain to “disregard” some of that input.
This does not happen if the pain keeps increasing.

So in that sense I recommend starting with the worst pain.
As @Coma points out perfectly:

You might also benefit from another hidden effect:
Flex installs take longer. so after a Flex… you do one X install, and suddenly realise how fast that one went!
This might help you manage the rest more calmly.

While if you get used to the quicker x installs first, the longer delay from the Flex might cause you to become more anxious than needed.

Veins would not be cut.
In my case it was nicked… as in the very tip of the needle touched a vein, causing a rush of blood out.
Veins are pretty good at healing up, so that flow of blood stopped itself even before I finished the install.

Also, important to note that that’s what I get for letting someone who never used a needle before open my pocket. You are going to an installer, so this should not be something for you to worry too much about.

Exactly.
Recovery and install went on fine.

The “biggest” complication there was a sudden pressure drop during the install. But I was already expecting something like that, so could mitigate it without any issues.

If it was a proper perforation of a vein… I guess I would have just some more edema, and a longer purple looking bruise… maybe add 2-5 days to my healing timeline… and that’s it.
But going with an Installer, we are expecting it will know how to avoid those issues. :relieved:

Ultimately, as @Coma already put out, but worth repeating:

Wise words!

Also that! :point_up_2:

That is a great (and much less messy) alternative to my “smear ink test”. Wish I had thought of that before! :rofl:

Mostly… nothing.
If it’s on the right place, you should not feel the flex at all, not even with direct pressure.

The big issue with a flex is when you apply pressure rubbing it sideways somehow.
Because that’s what would press the thin edges against the pocket sides… and that’s where you could be damaging yourself, thus triggering feels/pain.

The secondary concern with a flex is if it gets cut.
But then… that would be a big concern regardless of the implant. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

The only other thing I can think of that you will try to avoid, especially on fattier/meatier areas, is with hard edges.
Our meat is far more flexible than a flex, and it can acommodate a hard < 90 angle object without a fuss.
Not sure I can say the same is true for a flex, if it’s on a place that gets constantly hammered by such an object (thinking of a desk’s edge, etc)

That’s an interesting one… I hear a lot about how that would be a perfect spot… but never see enough people actually doing it there! (and I would not blindly recommend that position, for reasons mentioned on my previous reply)

But this depends a lot on how you do stuff and use your hands on a daily basis. :woman_shrugging:

Might end up being a perfect sport for you.
Would never work for me.

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Yea that’ll be my plan now, because of the physiological stuff you and coma are saying, along with if I only get one in, and something happens I’d rather it be the flex, I can do x series more or less any weekend

I don’t think I lean that area of my hand on sharp edges, because of some of the instability of wrist, typically I’ll only lean on it “flat”

Still pretty back and forth on it, but I think I’m leaning knife edge for flex, and it helps consolidate x series on the top of my hand, and less weirdness under my wrist

It’s only good for 3 years anyways, so if it’s a problem and doesn’t last I know to put the replacement on the top of my hand?

Can you explain about the pocket you guys often talk about in regards to flex implants?

Isn’t that the same thing as an x series? Just flesh that’s constricted around the implant

If you wack it weird it just goings thru the healing process again a little and constricts back around it?

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Kinda… but the pocket is quite a bit bigger. And, what’s possible more important, the glass implants are completely rounded and have a very “body-friendly” form, in a way.

If you’re lucky, yes. If you’re unlucky, it will damage that said pocket from inside, and that definitely leads to a big swelling and takes quite some time to heal again… Thing is, flex implants are a lot thinner than glass implants, so they create more damage if pushed around.

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So, million dollar question, would you do knife edge?