A noob question about the Apex

Hey guys! I think I’m about to pull the trigger on the Apex tomorrow, but I have one thing holding me up. I see it does not currently support Fidesmo Pay, but I am curious if there is another applet that can be run through it for contactless payment, or if there is a hardware limitation.

There are pretty much three things I’ll need this to do, only one of which is a dealbreaker, which is the contactless payment. The other things would be to modernize my home with keyless deadbolts, and replace my ID badge at work. I know I have a lot of reading up to do to get ready for it, but if it won’t ever be able to support contactless payment, I would rather get something else before I spend the money on the Apex. If anyone has any insight, it will be hugely helpful and appreciated!

It’s not a hardware limitation, it’s a policy and monopoly limitation from Visa / MasterCard

It could work, but they refuse to allow it on the network, and they have a monopoly on the network…

Last I heard the apex RING which is the same chip, will be setup and allowed to do contactless payment… because it the barons have “allowed” it


Unfortunately, the Apex doesn’t support contactless payment. Visa and MasterCard have a monopoly on that market, and they haven’t allowed it. It is able to pay, it has everything necessary, but they would have to approve it first.

There have been some minor advancements in connecting crypto wallets, however. I’m not interested in that so I can’t say much, but this thread documents it:

If you want a chip that can do contactless payment, get a Walletmor if you’re in the EU/EEA, or a payment conversion if you’re not. I haven’t heard of anyone enrolling one of those into a badge system, but I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to.

Awesome, thank you guys for the responses. I knew it was an issue of policy, but wanted to be sure it was not hardware related, as well. I don’t really wanna go for more than one implant at this point, and would rather get the one with the most utility for my needs at the moment, and if payment isn’t covered, then that would omit the Apex. I am in the US, so sounds like the Walletmor is out.

Okay, bumping this as I’ve done a little more digging. I think I would also be very interested in some of the other projects I’ve seen accomplished with the NExT, but from what I understand, the Apex Flex won’t be capable of the LF stuff, will it?

None of the Apex variants can do LF. They do have the capability to support payment the moment MasterCard or Visa authorize it. Anyone with the implant currently already has the applets loaded and keyed. Unfortunately we don’t know when/if that is.

The Walletmor version available for the US market should not be used currently, because the company Purewrist misrepresented their chips and they all expire in July 2023. I’m still waiting to get my CoM conversion back from Amal, but if that continues to work as expected that will be an option in the US for payment implants. This thread has details. You need a specific kind of card that is available at multiple banks like Chase for example.

Awesome, thank you! Please pardon my ignorance and desire for spoon feeding, but would there be any way that the Apex Flex could be used for access to things like deadbolts, or making touchless switches(such as garage door openers, ignition switches for simpler vehicles like motorcycles/boats/buggies/etc)? If it is, would you be able to point me towards a good resource to learn that? I’m trying to click through the forum as best as I can, but there’s a lot of stuff here, and it’s getting a bit overwhelming lol

No worries mate. We all know it’s a lot to take in.

It can be used for those things. Unfortunately most systems like that are very simple and just use the UID, which doesn’t leverage any of the advanced functionally of the smartcards. There’s a community driven open source deadbolt lock, but it’s not near completion yet. The VivoKey team has plans to make a lock that can leverage the advanced security functions, but that’s still a WIP as well. You can currently use it out of the box to start a Tesla though, and we’re exploring other vehicles


Thank you very much for the info! I am definitely going to have to look more into it, but at the moment, I think I am going to be limited by the capabilities of the Flex(and finding an installer lol) so I’m starting to think it may be better to get my feet wet with a NExT as well.

Honestly, I think you’re right. The Next is the ideal starter implant, both for ease of installation and familiarizing yourself with the tech. Also, it has been used and tested for years when the apex line is relatively brand new.
It’s a good first step before getting into flexes, just make sure you don’t install it in a spot where you might one day want something else :wink:

The XSIID is also a good go to

It’s just nfc, but it is flashy if you want to show off your implants

I don’t really agree with that. Unless you have a use for the LF, it’s just kinda pointless. xSIID would probably be a better use of money in such a case.

I was thinking of futureproofing. For locks, access control etc… It’s good to have it.

(Don’t get me wrong I love the blink too XD)


thats kind of the point.

You have immediately doubled your capability.
There are A lot of products that only use LF.
they are older, cheaper (in fairness less secure) But great for projects.

My opinion would be “Why not?”

Also, Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

Yeah, xSIID has blinky, and if thats all you want, then thats your best option.


Or… you get both a NExT and a xSIID… because more is better :crazy_face:


Before you buy anything, I’d like to touch on this:

The NExT is great, yes, but there’s no guarantee that it’ll work with your badge system. Before you buy an implant, consider getting some more information, like what chipset the cards use and if your company would allow an implant instead of an access card. Worst case scenario, you buy an NExT or xSIID, stick it in your body and have one less use case than you thought you could. (Speaking from experience here.)

I’d also like to mention that with an LF chip like the NExT, it’s possible to use it with the xEM access controller, as well as other projects that use LF. You can’t do that with an xSIID or Apex or any other HF chip.

There’s pros and cons to every chip, but I recommend that you pick one that works for as many of your use cases as possible. :slight_smile:


I’m definitely leaning towards both for now. At the very least, I’ve got another couple hours of research to knock out before I get one and install it lol

1 Like

If the ring has the same type of chip to the implant why can’t I say I’m adding payment to my ring but actually add it to my implant?

Visa and Master Card freak out when you mention implants… Hence why payment is only available on the ring.

As far as I understand it, fidesmo controlls their own eco system of apps on compatible chips

As far as I understand it when the chips are programmed for the very first time, they are programmed to identify what form factor they are

It’s important that this step is not something the end user can do, because of private keys and other high level cryptography stuffs

From there fidesmo only allows the payment app to be installed onto chips they want, because of agreements with visa and MasterCard

Before you suggest; Amal is under the same agreements… he could probably get away with breaking them for a bit… but eventually if he got caught it would bring everything down, so
He is working his way up