Amplified Proxmark Frontend :pm3_easy:

Not a review of Dangerous Things per se. More of a suggestion. But I’ll leave this here because I don’t feel like opening a dedicated thread for this.

DT is excellent at providing great implants. But my overwhelming impression, both from my own experience and that of others’, is that the problem implantees most often run into is interfacing with existing LF or HF readers made for full-size tags. So much so that there’s a dedicated Excel sheet listing “compatible” products - compatible mostly in the sense of being able to couple with this-or-that implant.

I think DT should fund the development of an amplified Proxmark frontend, or perhaps a derivative of the Proxmark design with vastly more power. Or perhaps a generic amplififier with a credit-card sized antenna at one end and an amplified antenna for coupling with an implant at the other end

I know it’s not just about power, like a ham radio rig. What I mean is a means to provide super-easy, super-safe coupling with even the smallest glassie that doesn’t involve major headaches. I know it’s possible because I have higher power readers here that read from a mile away (rare beasts indeed, but obtainable if you’re willing to pay for them) so technically, it’s entirely possible.

DT could also partner with existing desktop reader manufacturers to develop or improve readers.

Of course, the DT slush fund isn’t unlimited (although if it quit building that super-secret underground lair in Antarctica, that would free up some money :slight_smile:). So perhaps it could be crowdfunded. Financially, it wouldn’t be such a pointless venture: sure it would primarily benefit our little group first, but I bet there’s a larger market for longer range LF and HF readers.

So anyway, hintidy-hint-hint. Talk is cheap and I’m just talking. But there’s an idea. I feel DT having offerings for both under- and over-skin products would have value, and I think the latter would probably sell outside the biohacking community too, broadening DT’s market reach.


I would buy a implant-focused proxmark in a heartbeat. It might be worth opening a new thread where users can contribute their ideas/suggestions on how to improve the pm3 hardware. I know there’s a ton of people here with the knowledge needed to create better hardware; giving them a spot to share their knowledge could be a huge benefit to everyone.

1 Like

Lets see how it goes. I have put this in support at least until it becomes a project or an actual thing

:pm3_easy: :pm3_rdv4:

1 Like

So what’s the use case here, what needs are not being met by the proxmark RVD4 with the proxLF antenna? Do you just want a cheaper alternative?

The ProxLF antenna is a good effort - meaning it’s better than the stock RDV4 LF antenna for implants - but it’s still kind of borderline. Barely adequate at the best of times, and that’s putting it politely.

At least that’s my experience. Even with the ProxLF antenna, you’d better be extra careful if you don’t want to brick your T5577, and you’d better have a lot of patience fo find an xBT, or program a 224-bit Indala without messing up the UID.

What I have in mind is a PM3 that reads LF or HF with your hand one inch above the antenna, in any old direction / orientation. External power supply okay by me. And it’s not a matter of price: I’m willing to pay top dollar for this. I’d rather pay a buncharoonie for an extra-oomph PM3 than have to get opened up to replace a bricked implant.

And then when the PM3 is taken care of, a tabletop reader with extra range. Although that’s already a thing if you want one now. It’s just that it doesn’t look very user-friendly as it is.

@anon3825968 I know you’ve posted about them before in various places, but I was wondering if you have a moment to list those rare beasts of a reader that are higher power and can read implants far away.

I have not tried to evaluate any of their products, but they have some impressive claims. I.e. under ideal circumstances with extremely high power licenced equipment…

Personally the RVD4 and ProxLF have never worked for me with an implant. Only standard card shapes.

What kind of implants? Glass? Flex?

With the NExT.

1 Like

Those are the two LF 1W readers I have. And here’s one of them reading the xEM in my foot through a snow boot:

They problem is, they’re no Proxmark: they’re dumb serial readers that simply output the UID of whatever chip happens to come in the field. My suggestion is to combine that guy and a Proxmark… somehow.

As for HF, I’ve already mentioned the DL533XL above. Here it is lighting up my flexNExT’s LEDs through my wrist like a Christmas tree:

I don’t have a video of it reading it through my wrist, but it worked too. At least as long as my flexNExT was still alive.

Give me some more time.


It’s been 41 Mins…



Now you’ve said too much :slight_smile: Care to elaborate?

If it’s strictly USB-powered without power negotiation, it can’t ever put out more than 500 mW mA though (and even that’s the theoretical limit) right?

Also, I cunningly see two ANT1 and ANT2 pads. Now I’m really intrigued. Actually nevermind, I just realized they’re the two pads for the one antenna :slight_smile:

Don’t you mean 2.5W? (0.5A @5V). The highest power reader chips only put out 3W for a variety of reasons. You might be able to find one rated for 5W but it’s lying. Also we’re not limited to 0.5A because there’s a sneaky USB-C footprint all wired up on the underside :smirk:

Honestly, raw power is not most of the equation. All the significant gains are from matching circuit tuning and coil shape. This is some pretty high order stuff and I’m not exactly an “expert”. We’ll make it work though.

Ah yes correct, the limit is 500 mA, not mW.

Indeed power isn’t the only factor by far. In fact, even those 1W readers I have need to “calibrate” themselves for a few seconds to do a better job at discriminating signal against noise. So it’s not like they simply blast out more power and that’s that. Still, if you want more range, you need a larger antenna, meaning you need more power to maintain the power density.

Hey, sorry for necro posting.
I’m looking at that RDV4 LF cylindrical antenna to build my home access system. This is the first I’ve seen about bricking chips. Should I be worried about bricking my chip just trying to get into my home??

No, the risk is when writing not reading.

interesting use case of the DT LF antenna.

This may also be of interest to you