Chip getting hot in sauna?

Has anyone any experience how x-series chip behaves in sauna? Will it get hot or unconfortable? Saunas where I usually go, are 75-85°C (167-185°F), and I’m there about 15 minutes at a time. In breaks chip should cool down just like my body is getting cooler. Or at least I think so :smiley:

In the FAQ’s about Tests we’ve performed on our x-series tags

Cooking an x-series in the oven

We decided to test our xIC tag’s compatibility with a gun safe called GunBox . We placed an xIC into a piece of raw chicken, which was then put inside a plastic bag and tested it with the GunBox safe. It worked! But, Amal got hungry and decided to cook it up with the tag inside. After cooking at 375F for 30 minutes, the tag was removed and tested with the GunBox, and it still worked!

My Experience

I don’t know what 375°F is in °C - 200°C ish, however, I have never sat myself in an actual oven but I have been in Saunas & steam rooms around 80°C and hot pools ( Spas and onsens ) at around 40 - 45°C; I never even thought about them, until you just mentioned it BUT they still work, so I would say there should be no issue for you.
unless you go over 200°C and then you might have some issues :fire:

The chips have been tested in an oven up to 190°C (375°F): Tests we've performed on our x-series tags

I haven’t been in a sauna since I got my implant. But I doubt its temperature will raise in your body so much that it becomes uncomfortable. Otherwise other body parts would also get uncomfortable. The skin is a good insulator.

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I live in Finland and I like my sauna piping hot (80-90C). None of my implants ever stopped working because of that yet.

Even if the chips were very sensitive to temperature - they aren’t though, since they need soldering at some point during manufacture - I think your body will keep them at a much lower temperature anyway. If you ever manage to bring them to failing temperature, I think your hand would be well cooked / scolded / charbroiled before.

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Thanks for quick aswers! Chip stopping to work wasn’t my biggest concern, but it getting unconfortable. I guess there is not that much metal to get hot. So this evening is time to bath and relax!

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Whatever materials are in a chip ain’t gonna get any warmer than your own body - unless you microwave your hand, in which case the metal bits will get hot faster than your meat. You never feel an implant unless you bump it, or force it out of position through the skin - like if you slide your hand into a tight pocket and the chip catches on the edge.

Nauti saunasta!

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correct… this is why you can put flame to the underside of a paper cup filled with water and it will not catch fire until the water is gone… because the water has a lower boiling point than the paper’s ignition point… the water is taking the heat away and boiling it off as steam. Consider this…

If any part of your body even got remotely close to being 80C, it would result in immediate painful burns and tissue necrosis… taken from Wikipedia;

The minimum temperature that can cause a burn in a finite amount of time is 44 °C (111 °F) for exposure times exceeding 6 hours. From 44° to 51 °C (111° to 124 °F), the rate of burn approximately doubles with each degree risen. The burn would develop in less than a second if the exposure temperature is at least 70 °C (160 °F).

One possibility which might be causing your concern is radiant heat. Radiant heat can create situations where one material absorbs one type of energy and re-radiates heat (typically lower energy) at a faster rate… for example, UV light is readily absorbed by many materials though at different rates, and those materials then “heat up” and emit IR radiation which we usually feel as heat. Our own skin can do this, as can other materials… and if you happen to be wearing something, like perhaps a matte black metal clasp or something, then it may absorb and convert more UV energy per square millimeter than your skin and thus it will “get hot” and possibly burn you… unless there is sufficient thermocouple between it and your skin, in which case your body should be capable of moving the heat energy away from the area faster than the metal clasp can emit it.

This part of the reason why TEG (thermo-electric generators) don’t really work all that well in wearables… that and the fact that as heat energy moves out of the body via thermocouple with a TEG device, the body tends to shut down excessive heat loss by constricting blood vessels in the affected area.

In short, thermodynamics can be complex.

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That’s what the thermometer in the sauna room says :slight_smile:

When you step into a hot sauna room, the air is dry. It’s very hot but it doesn’t burn. The real heat comes when you throw water on the stones: then you get hit by a wave of hot steam.

When the thermometer reads 90C and I throw just enough water, the steam hits me hard enough that my nervous system goes “into reverse” so-to-speak: I start feeling cold, all my muscles tense up to the point of impeding breathing a bit, and I start shivering. It’s a strange effect: intense heat confuses your nervous system enough that it starts convincing your brain you’re going into hypothermia. It only lasts for a few seconds as the steam wave hits you, then you go back to feeling very hot as usual. It sounds strange but I like it, and that’s what I’m after in a sauna.

Few sauna rooms are hot enough to give you that feeling, but the one in my house is very small and the sauna is cranked all the way up to achieve that (since it’s my sauna, I do what I want eh.) At any rate, I do that, and my implants are still alive and they don’t get uncomfortable or anything.

That’s true, but it ain’t happening in a sauna. It’s strictly convective heat. Since it’s what @kauppakassi was asking about, he can rest assured that his implants will not get any hotter than his body.

Also, an implant is under the skin: it’s unlikely to pick up radiative energy that the skin above won’t filter before it reaches the device. UV light for instance will typically be absorbed by the skin as it doesn’t penetrate very far. So even if you go sunbathing, you’ll get sunburnt but you won’t get a hot implant burning you on the inside.

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yep… your body is doing a great job of removing heat through evaporative (endothermic) cooling of sweat… when the steam hits you, it’s half the heat of the water vapor coming at you, and half the immediate and drastic reduction of the evaporation rate of your sweat… removing the ability to effectively cool your body by reducing the rate of evaporation in such an extremely small time window probably sets off all kinds of strange signals from your sensory nervous system.

I can’t say that it’s a healthy thing… sort of like jumping from a hot sauna into cold water… you immediately shut down… some people pass out and drown… doing that in reverse doesn’t seem all that safe either, but probably better than doing cocaine or some other stimulant. ¯\(ツ)

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For the sake of science, here’s a video of me in a hot sauna attempting to cook my implants - and scolding my hand in the process, incidentally… As you can see, at least the NFC chip still works :slight_smile:

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Wow! You shouldn’t have to cook your hand in steam to prove that :smiley: But now it’s proven. Chip works in sauna too. Kiitos

Ei se mitään. Ole hyvä :slight_smile:

@Rosco
Ouch!, That’s taking one for the team.

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I’m going to assume the implant part of me is much more temperature tolerant than the meat part of me surrounding it.

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They’re made out of meat
6aQdplM

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you expect me to believe in thinking meat?

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