Let’s talk about that in 2021… more than money, we need clergy to take on operations requirements, policy research, filings, international expansion, etc. … to do it well so it serves our purposes properly, it really would need to be like running a real church, and that’s a big job… but it’s worth discussing.
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As a die-hard atheist, I would join that church.
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I couldnt have said that any better myself.
@amal mor that happy to get behind this and found the “uk chapter”
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It is a lot of work, indeed. I can offer my support as well.
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So I somewhere between agnostic and atheist
On my more atheist days, I’m torn
I don’t want to play the game of “religion” and help perpetuating its silly privileges,
But on the other hand, maybe a taste of their own medicine would help ( always funny at least )
It works out really well for TST in the US
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Religion is the wrong word at least in the uk and most of Europe it would be ok to state that it is a belief system that provides you support.
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This is a really fucked situation. Sorry for the political touch, but I have to say that employers having power over our lives in this way is completely out of line with the “America is the most free country” image that most of its citizens seem to think is valid.
Anyway, in a more serious and on topic point, I would say that if you’re interested in the religious rights path, talking to someone from The Satanic Temple might benefit you here. They use religious freedom provided by the first amendment to protect bodily autonomy and all that good shit which is kind of implied in situations like this. They have fought (successfully) a lot of cases regarding, for example, kids getting physically reprimanded at school, and legal requirements for overly moralistic abortion laws etc etc.
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I researched them a bit in the past. They make quite a bit of sense, despite their …choice of name.
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Wow… I didn’t even know about the schism that happened in Satanism…
Read through their homepage quite a bit now, and they seem to be nice guys fighting for things worth fighting for. I like their views on body autonomy, obviously.
One thing I just don’t get - what does that have to do with satanism?
I mean, yeah, LaVey was writing his stuff some decades ago, of course lots of it is outdated now, and it would have been good for the CoS to evolve and effectively “do” something at all… but still, I can see what that guy meant. Not agreeing with all of it, of course, but it fulfills the term “satanism” in being not only anti-christian, but specifically based a lot on the pride of the individual that was attributed to the mythical “Lucifer” or whatever.
The things the Satanic Temple does are really great, and I appreciate what they do, but why on earth is that satanic? Just don’t get it 
Their “seven fundamental tenets” are basically just humanism and common sense…
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So… it’s a little complicated, and you did touch on some of the points about their history.
Yes, LaVey started the original Church of Satan which had similar views on bodily autonomy but was also pretty focused on the spiritual side of thigns (magick), as well as having a weird lean towards the cult of personality of LaVey and certain… philisophical weirdness about it- I might be mistaken but I read someone describe their philosophy as social-darwinist, individualist mindset.
TST uses Satan as a literary (EDIT: literary, not literally!! sorry) figure- the idea of anti-establishment, contrarianism. TST is fully atheistic (though I doubt they would care if you have a spiritual side) and highly political. From wikipedia:
The Satanic Temple does not believe in a supernatural Satan. The Temple uses the literary Satan as a metaphor to promote pragmatic skepticism, rational reciprocity, personal autonomy, and curiosity.[6] Satan is thus used as a symbol representing “the eternal rebel” against arbitrary authority and social norms.[15][16]
so, it’s metaphorical, I guess. I use the idea in my own personal relationships, as a litmus test of someones personality. I’m definitely atheist and try to be skeptical of the supernatural (though I accept there are things in nature we don’t fully understand), but if I can say to someone “hail Satan!” and they don’t react negatively, they’re probably cool in my book. 
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You’re not mistaken there
LaVey basically took most of his ideas from Nietzsche, so it is pretty misanthrophic and elitist. It puts the focus a lot on the “non serviam”-part of the mythological satan (and the “accuser” as well).
The spiritual side is present, but… well. LaVey worked on fairs and carnivals, and that’s just the way I see his “magic” - it’s fun. It’s entertainment, and that’s it. I doubt he really took that serious by himself (though lots of his “followers” do, sadly^^).
Agree on that - that’s a problem with many movements when their initiators die. I like the books he wrote, but he was just a dirty old man with a good knowledge of human nature and a fun way to write. He took existing philosphies and merged them together, added some pinch of carnival-esque entertainment and a ton of darkness, spiderwebs and bats. I just like that, as well as some of the ideas behind, but the persona LaVey… well. Guess he was an interesting guy 
For the CoS, Satan is completely metaphorical as well - since they don’t believe in god, they don’t believe in satan as well, for one does make little sense without the other. They just take the mythological figure and use it, much like the TST too.
But if I look at the seven tenets of the TST, I find such platitudes like “people can be wrong - if you made a fault, try to repair it” or such… I don’t know if that’s enough^^ They’re basically all just common sense, and a lot of “being the nice guy”. That’s a fine thing, but it has little to do with satanism - I mean, how rebellious is it to say “One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason” or “Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world”?
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in a time and place in which people can’t be bothered to wear a mask or stop going to indoor public functions for the sake of social collective health, I think that showing empathy in the face of “return to normalcy” is definitely uh… contrarian.
But you’re right about those being kind of “common sense” things. The important thing though, is that this is a religion which puts those common sense things at the forefront of their philosophy, unlike other religions which prioritize “don’t worship any god who isn’t me”, so it’s kind of refreshing, in my opinion.
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It’s satanism in name only. TST is an organization operating in the United States. Many state governments around here are functionally theocracies with their primary goals relating to the creation and/or maintenance of a Christian™ nation. If you examine some of TSTs legal actions you’ll notice that they’re bolstering the separation of church and state just like many other secular organizations, but they’re taking a “fight fire with fire” approach that is meeting with some success.
It’s easy for legislators to say “any group can put up a religious symbol at the state house” when it’s only Christian (and Jewish if you’re lucky) displays. It’s much more difficult for them to back up that claim when a satanic temple wants to put up a statue of Lucifer. They usually end up taking all the displays down.
The “satan” in the satanic temple is purely satirical. If it doesn’t make sense to you why that would be necessary then it may be because you live in a more rational country.
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@Devilclarke , I thought this healthy discussion complemented THIS thread better than derailing in @darkdragon885 's one.
So I merged it here. I hope you’re happy with that.
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Okay, I think I get that - it’s obviously depending on where you live if something is controversial / contrarian / rebellious. I seriously didn’t think of that
And like I said, I really appreciate what they’re doing in the US.
Sorry for my constant derailing… I often see forums similar to “normal open world communication”, and I tend to derail those a lot as well 
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Since my post from yesterday and reading through everything what was written afterwards I think there is a lot of stuff to sort out, so I agree completely here 
For me it will be definitely both options:
I am willing to help AND join the church of transhumanism. 
(that’s why I didn’t vote for one option until now)
Most definitely I will put something together within the next days and weeks, because I was reading through a lot of stuff about similar topics in the past. Maybe I find something helpful there.
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There’re always people like that…
Can, or should a church have its say if a body mod is not peaceful?
i.e.:can potentially / intentionally harm others, like teaser, poison or blade?
It’s an interesting notion, it could easily be incorporated into the basic tenants of the system, probably far easier NOW before Pandora’s box is open
The next question is what happens when a follower of said church deviates and pursues a mod that isn’t deemed peaceful, do they get ex communicated?
I don’t like the concept of ex communication in general, but creating an organized church brings up the question of how do you deal with those that stray from the accepted “doctrine”
More I think of this, more I believe that I would be part of said church,
The idea of discouraging violent implants seems a wise commandment, due to optics and blowback along with general vibe seeming slightly incompatible