Compatibility of Ntag213 and MiFare Classic 1k chip when using proxmark3 Easy(Iceman build)

[jasoncho]

Hi, I am pretty new to here, so please let me know if I commit a violence to the rule here.

I am learning RFID stuffs and messing with proxmark3 Easy(Iceman’s build) and some RFID chips recently. I did some research to learn and succesfully cloned my home key tag(MiFare Classic 1k chip) to a new MiFare Classic s50 1k CUID Gen2 chip(from chinese market). Also, I learned how to make a Xiaomi Purifier tag with blank Ntag213 chip and made some of it.

As you may know, MiFare Classic s50 1k CUID Gen2 chip uses 13.56Mhz and ISO14443A protocol so that I need to use “hf mf commands” on proxmark3 while I need to use “hf mfu commands” on proxmark3 for Ntag213 since Ntag213 is MiFare Ultralight chip wirh ISO14443A protocol.

My question would be here. Is it possible to clone a Ntag213 chip(original) to a MiFare Classic 1k CUID Gen2 chip(copy)? Like, I have another device with Ntag213 chip for basic security, and it requires a UID change to make a working clone. The blank Ntag213 that I have is not UID changeable, and my s50 1k chip is UID changeable so t hat I am planning to use s50 1k chip to clone the Ntag213 chip from the device unless I buy a UID-changeable Ntag213 chip.

I am not sure whether I will be able to copy a dump from Ntag213 chip to a MiFare Classic 1k CUID Gen2 chip. May I just use “hf mf restore” command to copy a dump from “hf-mfu-XXXX” dump from Ntag213?

TLDR;

Ntag213 needs “hf mfu” command on proxmark3 and creates dump file named with “hf-mfu”

s50 Gen2 chip needs “hf mf” command on proxmark3 and creates dump file named with “hf-mf”

Both chips use ISO14443A protocol

Compatible?

[Iceman]

No.

[amal]

@jasoncho

My question would be here. Is it possible to clone a Ntag213 chip(original) to a MiFare Classic 1k CUID Gen2 chip(copy)?

No you’ll need something like the flexUG4

[jasoncho]

Thanks for the reply. I still do not understand the reason that it is impossible (since they both use same protocl. That is all I know so far), but I will search more info to learn.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

@jasoncho

but I will search more info to learn.

there might be some answers in here

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[Jirvin]

You’re correct in saying they both use the same protocol (ISO 14443A) for basic structure of communication but that’s where the similarities stop.

ISO14443A is just a standard which broadly defines various things but does not set rules for how specific chips should implement data structure, security, authentication etc.

Think of the protocol (ISO1443A) like language (ie English) and the specific chipset (Eg MFC S50, NTAG213, 215, 216 etc) like dialect (Boston, Southern USA, Totonto, Scouse, Fijian English etc). While each dialect is based on the same language and follow broad concepts, these arent always what is implemented or used by people who speak a specific dialect when conversing.

More specifically comparing Mifare Classic to NTAG21x chipsets, they share a few similarities but also fundamental differences:

Similar	Differences
ISO14443A protocol	Encryption - Crypto1 (MFC) vs no encryption (Ntag21x)
13.56 MHz frequency	Memory layout: sectors/blocks (MFC) vs pages (Ntag21x)
Passive, contactless tags	Authentication: key-based (MFC) vs password + lock bytes (Ntag21x)
Read/write capabilities	NFC type: Doesnt conform (MFC) vs NFC Forum Type 2 (Ntag21x)
No internal power source	Typical usage: Controlled Access (MFC) vs NFC sharing / ID (Ntag21x)
Short-range communication	Compatibility: Some phones dont fully support MFC, all NFC phones support Ntag

If youre looking for more reading, Id recommend looking at the datasheets for both chipsets and understanding how each works before comparing the two.

Hope this helps, not sure if this has explained or clarified much but Im happy to try more should you still have questions.

[jasoncho]

Thanks for the links. I think I need to learn about the types of RFID chip first in order to fully understand.

[jasoncho]

Thanks for the explanation. Comparing protocol with language was really helpful to understand how they work. There are way too many types of chip, and it seems like I need to figure out which type of chip I will use first.