Different devices for one implant

So I may have dove into some products before researching everything. I got a Hornady Rapid Safe 4800KP which works great. The crappy thing is that I also want this to work with my building which uses HID readers and expects HID Fobs. I have had success in cloning the HID creds to a T5577 card so I know that works, and I figure I could do the same for the safe which expects EM410x.

My vision is that I want my NeXT 2 to work with both use-cases. My doors are the higher priority but I’m having a hard time pairing a HID fob to the safe, and my building manager said he’d be willing to put my implant on the system but we can’t play around with it too much so I’m wondering if it is possible to get these working together somehow before I finalize the implant with my building. I just don’t know where to start.

Here’s my two fobs the first is the one to the safe something I plan to toss once I get the implant working and the second is my home fob

[usb] pm3 → lf search

[=] Note: False Positives ARE possible
[=]
[=] Checking for known tags…
[=]
[+] EM 410x ID 011532A152
[+] EM410x ( RF/64 )
[=] -------- Possible de-scramble patterns ---------
[+] Unique TAG ID : 80A84C854A
[=] HoneyWell IdentKey
[+] DEZ 8 : 03318098
[+] DEZ 10 : 0355639634
[+] DEZ 5.5 : 05426.41298
[+] DEZ 3.5A : 001.41298
[+] DEZ 3.5B : 021.41298
[+] DEZ 3.5C : 050.41298
[+] DEZ 14/IK2 : 00004650606930
[+] DEZ 15/IK3 : 000552579401034
[+] DEZ 20/ZK : 08001008041208050410
[=]
[+] Other : 41298_050_03318098
[+] Pattern Paxton : 21421906 [0x146DF52]
[+] Pattern 1 : 5779754 [0x58312A]
[+] Pattern Sebury : 41298 50 3318098 [0xA152 0x32 0x32A152]
[+] VD / ID : 001 / 0355639634
[+] Pattern ELECTRA : 277 3318098
[=] ------------------------------------------------

[+] Valid EM410x ID found!

[=] Couldn’t identify a chipset
[usb] pm3 → lf search

[=] Note: False Positives ARE possible
[=]
[=] Checking for known tags…
[=]
[+] [H10301 ] HID H10301 26-bit FC: 77 CN: parity ( ok )
[+] [ind26 ] Indala 26-bit FC: 1232 CN: parity ( ok )
[=] found 2 matching 26-bit formats

[=] Trying with a preamble bit…
[+] [ind27 ] Indala 27-bit FC: 4712 CN:
[+] [indasc27] Indala ASC 27-bit FC: 5581 CN:
[+] [Tecom27 ] Tecom 27-bit FC: 854 CN:
[=] found 3 matching 27-bit formats

[=] raw: 00000000000000

[+] Valid HID Prox ID found!

[+] Chipset… T55xx
[?] Hint: Try lf t55xx commands

edit: formatting

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This is the problem. The safe is not compatible with HID Prox cards. You’ll need two implants as the T5577 can only be set up as one type of credential at a time.

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What kind of HID readers are they?

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I could have sworn I saw a thread that showed that it was possible to put two credentials on one t5577. I remember that it depended on what readers were involved…

For the life of me I cannot find it, but I feel like this would be the perfect use case.

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I remember it. Pretty sure it was two EM credentials. I am sure Pilgrim will post a link shortly. I couldn’t find it either.

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Wow. Look at me beating Pilgrim! Found it!

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Yes but only two EM41xx IDs.. not two different types of credentials. That’s because hid prox and EM both require different analog frontend configurations.

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Yeah I see that now. If I were savvy enough to hunt down the post I would have noticed.

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Yep, I remember it well, but

no need, because

By many hours

Boom, nice work.

Sometimes it’s tricky unless you remember
specific details, the wording and/or the person who posted it.
Remembering that you saw it was a good enough prompt for @TSMC55 to dig it out

5 Likes

So I had an interesting idea. I used to be an admin for my condo HOA and I know that in their system they only read the last 4 digits of any HID Fob so if for example (random) the FC is 123 and the CN is 12345 the system only checks if it the presented fob is 2345.

I know, I know this was a security issue I brought up with the HOA and they dismissed it. I talked with the current admin of the system right now and he said it doesn’t matter what fob I bring to the system as long as I pay the “programming fee” and it works then it works.

So I know I can copy my current fobs but I have no desire to do that. I want to stay within their rules. I do however want to get these two systems working together and I know there’s a lot more home devices that use em410x fobs than hid fobs so I was wondering to test before we program is there a way to program a T5577 fob as a em410x where the last 4 digits read by an HID reader is “2345” because I want to make sure my hunch works before I pay this programming fee a few different times.

Unfortunately no. The way the chip communicates data through the magnetic coupling is different for HID prox and EM.

It’s a pretty terrible analogy but think of it like hid is AM band on your radio and EM is using FM. There’s just no way to make them work together on the same systemnat the same time. Your radio can be on AM or FM at one time but not both. Likewise, the T5577 can only be programmed to operate in one “mode” at a time.. EM or HID prox.

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Some fancier HID readers can support EM credentials, have you tested that?

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I thought that was pretty good actually

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