Hi, im new here :)

Hi all, so im sure ths has been asked many many times and i apologize for that but i wondering if anyone can offer some help as to what they think may be best for my purposes?

So i would like a chip that i can use for storing otp and verification like that (not too sure what types we can do with the chips), for example like unlocking pc or certain apps that can be unlocked with nfc. i would also like to store some data on it that could be read maybe like some a phone number in case of emergencies? and also opening url if thats possible.

Pretty much things that are cool, and some helpful such as nfc passcode verifcation. Also i dont know if its possible to add to the chips your own personal nfc card information to use that? i dont have any cards that use nfc but it would be cool to program an arduino or rpi with an nfc reciever to read and activate my chip?

Thank yoi very much! :slight_smile:

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Sorry forgot to mention, the 2 im looking at are xDF2 and the NExT but im not sure what the difference is :frowning:

For actual randomised crypto based OTP you’d be looking at the Spark2 or the Apex. However, the examples you gave regarding unlocking a PC or apps, I wouldnt recommend either of those products.

From what Ive gathered you are looking for something with:

  • Some storage
  • Preferably High Frequency and NFC compliant/usable (so it can work with a phone)
    These were the only 2 main points I found to describe the type of implant; not what it is going to be used for.

Many, if not all of the HF implants support these requirements. The NExT is the more popular choice as it combines HF and LF into one.
The HF side uses an NTAG216 which has 888 bytes of user write able storage, NFC Forum Type 2 compliant and supports NDEF messages. In other words, it has a decent amount of memory, it can be read/written from a phone and you can store URLs/phone numbers/email/address/etc.

To unlock a PC with an implant, you could use the KRB1 which reads the chip’s UID and types it as the password. This isnt a randomised nor crypto generated process but more of a static method. Of course your password would need to be the same as the chip’s UID for it to work.

Im not too sure what is meant by this and would like some additional elaboration if possible.

Both the xDF2 and NExT are glass encapsulated implants meaning they can be implanted using the supplied injectors; no need for scalpel/flex needle work.
The biggest difference is the chipsets they use.

The NExT is a dual frequency implant that combines an NTAG216 (HF) and a T5577 (LF) into one. This gives you some versatility in that you have an NFC compliant HF implant and a very versatile LF chipset that can emulate most LF cards.

The xDF2 uses a Mifare DESFire Ev2 chip which is more commonly used in access control systems from its impressive secure feature set. For an end user, it does boast a large memory size of 8KB, unique file system, NFC Forum Type 4 compliant along with may other features. Given it is commonly used in PACS, there is more of a challenge to configure the additional features which would be difficult to do solely with a phone.

Overall, a NExT sounds like it would fit your use case quite well. Its a very versatile implant and commonly bought as a first implant for those starting out. I know Im firmly in that statistic.

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Ignore all of that advice and listen carefully.

THE chip you want is not available yet, but will be SOON™ you really want the Vivokey Apex. The initial offering will be the Vivokey Apex Flex and the first batch are in production.

If you don’t mind larger but want better scanning capability then you might want to wait for the Apex Mega. These will have apps for KeePass, U2F, OTP, and so on.

There is a possibility that a glass version (Apex Max) might be released, but that is neither certain, nor imminent. The Apex Flex can be installed with a 4 Ga needle install. Basically the needle is used to make a pocket, then the flex is pushed in.

I realise that I am selling you vaporware but it is an actual product that is almost here.


Wut? Why did you throw away Jirvin? :joy:

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Ouch poor @Jirvin !! I’m in the hospital, but that must have hurt hahah

Basically Apex will be useful for otp applications as well as PC login (it’s in the works now a la @fraggersparks )


I’m sorry @Jirvin, your advice is very good, and the NExT is a good solution.

However for OTP, and various other authentication options the Vivokey Apex is a much better solution. For access systems combining it with a FlexMT (Magic 1 and T5577 combo) would have you covered for almost any situation.

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Hi all,

Thank you very much for the responses!

So, to reply:

@Jirvin Firstly thank you for the explanation and information about these chips, they were very helpful to my understanding :slight_smile: About the nfc thing that you werent sure what i meant, i was meaning like cloning an already owned nfc cards numbers such as a train or bus card to the chip.

@Zwack Thank you for the help with the alternative chip :slight_smile: . i had had a quick look at that chip before however i primarly had two concerns with it, firstly being the price as it is quite expensive however obviously depending on how good they turn out to be and my financial situation at the time would help make my decision. My second concern would be would this be too overkill with my needs. For example what would this do better for me for otp vs the NExT?

Thank you very much! :smiley:

@Jirvin - the DT numbing gel is great for burns :slightly_smiling_face:


The Vivokey Apex price is not going to be the same as the beta price listed on the DT website.

You can check out the applet list and see what you think.

Here is a picture of an unencapsulated Apex flex. If you really want the latest information then joining the DT Club keeps you pretty up to date.

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Ah cool okay, ill wait and see when it comes out :slight_smile:


The NExT can not do OTP

Ohh i didnt know. How about xDF2, can that do otp?

Nope. Youre gonna want an Apex if you want OTP :slightly_smiling_face:

Since were talking about OTP, is the OTP capable of replacing an app like google auth which is TOTP or are the two incompatible?

That depends on how the app is written. TOTP requires a time source. I am assuming that the app is going to be able to get a current time from the host system, so in that case, yes.

@fraggersparks would be the person to ask.

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Correct. It’s TOTP standard. Time source comes from the NFC device. We reskinned Yubico’s open source authenticator and changed the AID it talks to.


Hi New Here, I’m dad.


So after all the help from all yall, im hoping to get the apex when it comes out.However i would most realistically put this in my arm which is all cool. However i would also like to have something in my hand.

So the two ive been looking at are the next and the spark2. My question is, what is the difference between these two?

I would preferably like to do card cloning which i know would be specific to the card and 2fa, which i read is probably going to have to be done a cold storage type of way. Which is fine for me. Also the url popup/ NDEF i would like but they can both do that.

So anyways, what would be the best for this use? Is there any reason to get the spark2 over the next?


That’s a good location for it, just consider if / when the Apex is approved for payments, presenting your arm to a terminal may be more difficult than a hand…

Quite a lot actually, the list of what is similar is shorter
High Frequency,NFC and ISO14443A

Otherwise, the chips and purposes are very different.

For your situation
No, I would recommend the NExT implant for your Hand and the Apex for your arm.