Are biohackers interested in the principle of sexual orientation change?
If so, what could be possible and what methods could accomplish it.
Why does it sound like you’re asking for some form of conversion therapy?
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I’m asking about the principle.
Could it be done safely?
I’m a bit confused. What do you mean "asking about the principal’? I see this has the [Projects] label, and you have “Idea” in the title. Can you help me understand your question/project a bit further?
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Could biohacking help change sexual orientation? I have heard of biohackers who would like to investigate that. If so, what methods could be investigated.
@enginerd is correct. What you are talking about sounds like a spin on conversion therapy.
This is not the kind of “biohacking” that our community would engage in. In fact, it sounds unethical and goes against current medical and scientific consensus that sexual orientation is unique to the individual and cannot be forcibly changed by any external influence.
From the American Medical Association: Underlying [conversion] techniques is the assumption that any non-heterosexual, non-cisgender identities are mental disorders, and that sexual orientation and gender identity can and should be changed. This assumption is not based on medical and scientific evidence. Professional consensus rejects pathologizing sexual and gender identities. In addition, empirical evidence has demonstrated a diversity of sexual and gender identities that are normal variations of human identity and expression, and not linked to mental illness.
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Let me address that point. Is conversion therapy wrong because it is ineffective or is it wrong because the notion of changing sexual orientation is wrong.
I refer to this biohacker from Reddit.
"Long time biohacker here. If we believe all of our biology will become mutable and up to our choosing, what about sexual orientation? Before we continue I want to specify I am male, LGBT and non-religious, but curious about modifying my sexual orientation to become more bisexual (a Kinsey 5 with a target goal of Kinsey 2-3). I do not believe that the creation of such a technology diminishes the innate rights of protected groups and humans, even if one could easily use it to become completely heterosexual or homosexual. Also, I don’t mean conversion therapy (which is reprehensible and doesn’t work— anyone forcing it on a minor should face a life sentence).
So here’s what we know so far (about males): there seem to be a lot of confounding factors but male sexuality is at least influenced by two things biologically: genes that minorly increase the likelihood of some sexual orientation, and the hormonal environment of the womb which is in charge of sexual differentiation. In the womb, the brain starts off “female-by-default” and gets “masculinized” (or androgenized) by hormones. This is why I specify male, because androgenization seems to be much more of a one-way-street (for now). Male mice given aromatase inhibitors during this period can turn from female-preference to bisexual. (1)
So the brain’s core structures are organized in the womb by hormones and later in life activated, inhibited, or modulated by those same hormones. This is called the organizational-activation hypothesis (2) and may lie at the core of not only sexuality, but cognition, anxiety, and overall health. Surprisingly, even a stressed mother can affect the sexuality and cognition of her future child in the womb. (3, 4).
Three key areas for sexuality in the adult brain are the anterior hypothalamus, the amygdala, and the striatum. There are others, but these are the three I believe are most important. Surprisingly, activation of specific areas of the anterior hypothalamus was able to trigger sexual behavior of both genders (both mounting and presenting) in a SINGLE mouse (meaning the circuitry is still somewhere in there) (5).
My hypothesis is some kind of “androgenization” protocol to the amygdala and hypothalamus could be one way to change sexual orientation (at least in one direction). The primary issue is that these neurons are “locked in place” now, and I’m not entirely sure what prevents hormones from reshaping the brain today (epigenetic marks? lack of stem cell material?). We know some critical periods for development can be reopened with drugs like valporic acid which reopens the critical learning period for perfect pitch and other abilities. Maybe something could reopen even earlier critical periods. (6)
What do you think? If anyone has interesting papers on this I would love to see too. I understand this may be a bit taboo too."
- Perinatal administration of aromatase inhibitors in rodents as animal models of human male homosexuality: similarities and differences - PubMed
- Organizational-Activational Hypothesis - Wikipedia
- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6941912_Effects_of_prenatal_stress_on_sexual_partner_preference_in_mice
- Effects of prenatal stress can affect children into adulthood
- Medial preoptic area in mice is capable of mediating sexually dimorphic behaviors regardless of gender | Nature Communications
- Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pitch - PMC
You have been given the same answer over and over, and continue to spin back to the same questions. This is unethical, and impossible to achieve, especially with your resources.
I would discourage anyone else from attempting to engage you on this subject.
What? Aren’t you just closing down debate?
I’ma break this down:
This is unethical.
A person trying to change their own sexuality inherently believes that there is something WRONG with them, which is pathologizing something that is not a mental illness. Changing something about your own nature is not the same as enhancing functionality or adding functionality.
A person trying to change someone else’s sexuality is blatantly unethical for the same reasons – not to mention the issue of consent being a major problem as well.
So, yes, there is no discussion here.
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Do you oppose cosmetic surgery on the grounds that is changing something that is not wrong?
Isn’t biohacking about expanding possibility?
EDIT: Even it’s about possibilities others may not agree with?
We make modifications to our bodies to better fit with our nature.
So what would be wrong with hacking body to change nature?
Hey buddy, going to give you the same response I gave you in the Discord where we discussed why this is unethical at length. I recommend you at least read it again.
A) Therapy: You need to be talking to a therapist about this. Acceptance is not defeatist. Bare minimum, they can address the fact you’re obsessed with this topic and help alleviate the obsession portion.
B) When I asked why you wanted this, you said you wanted kids and didn’t want to do icky things.
1) You can still have kids. You can even have biological kids. You are the only one stopping you.
2) You’re not required to do anything just because you’re gay. If you think something is gross, don’t do it. If you have a partner, practice good communication with them.
3) You can be a gay man who dates and fucks women. They exist. I don’t think they’re the happiest they could be, but again you’re the only one stopping you.
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Please answer, what would be wrong with hacking body to change nature?
You are very closed about the purpose.
Bio hacking is an internal motivation to do what I want with my body. My body, my choice.
Any type of “conversion therapy” are not a personal choice, they are usually forced or cohorsed on the victim because they don’t fit the mold of gen pop. My body, NOT your choice
The original and intent is extremely different.
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This has been explained to you time and again. You have no interest in listening because you’re not coming from a rational place or asking of your own free, uncoerced will.
It is my body, my choice.
I am asking from a free uncoerced place.
So what separates sexual orientation from other things humans change about themselves?