The risk/reward is not favorable,
There is little perceivable reward that can’t be accomplished other ways
The risk/reward is not favorable,
There is little perceivable reward that can’t be accomplished other ways
There probably is a slightly higher risk for migrations in growing bodies, think I’ve read that here before. Generally these implants are extremely simple, medically.
My personal opinion, if you find a pro that does it, yeah go ahead. My “this is the internet” answer is, reconsider it. Would a NFC ring work?
I’ve always said the youngest I would allow my kids to have implants in 16, the reasons primarily are:
Scars, the implantation leaves a wound that will in most cases scar to some degree and I would want them to understand this and accept that.
Development, children grow things move stretch ect I would be concerned that the implant may move relative to the structures in the hand and cause issue (pain or discomfort)
People, when I say this I mean specifically people like social services (cps in america) being informed and taking the stance that it was surgery or the like.
And nobody who has responded has said that they can give a definitive answer.
I definitely can’t.
If I gave you a guarded “it might be doable, but see a doctor about it first” would you accept that?
Because that is basically what people are saying.
We don’t know, we would suggest seeing a doctor and asking them.
It might not be an issue, it might be one. I honestly don’t know.
We have also made several alternative suggestions, that are worth considering.
(And I even agree with @Equipter post that he deleted)
this would be my worry too, CPS getting involved as its a relatively large elective surgery
To this, I call fallacy. Never, NEVER, take an open internet forum’s word for granted regarding medical or legal advice without further verification and study. If all it would take for you to be reassured about the lasting implications of driving a syringe into your daughter’s still-maturing hand, one of only two primary means she has to interact with and manipulate objects in the world as she lives her life, and injecting a foreign body with the potential to migrate and interfere with growing tendons and bones is a few accounts here saying “Yeah, go for it”, then I worry for you.
The only source you should be seriously consulting for medical advice of a child is a professional, licensed and accredited pediatric surgeon.
But hey, thats just my opinion.
Just another opinion here
Firstly, at least you just asked advice rather than just doing it completely uninformed.
I would reccomend going to a doctor ( pediatric ) and taking as much relevant information as you can: Documentation / photos and your old implant syringe(s) if you have them.
Take your Kiddo along with you so it can all be explained, 10 year olds are not stupid, but they do need guidance and direction with their decision making, she will understand and would appreciate being included, since it is her decision at the end of the day.
Show the doctor yours, and how it lays under your skin and get the professional medical advice from them.
Explain to the doctor about possible migration issues some people have had, and also take some info about how they can be removed if required.
From a personal standpoint, I would follow my advice above, dont rush into it, let her think on it, would the alternatives suit her ( Wrist bands, nail stickers, key fobs, necklace etc)
If she has had time to think, seen the size of the needle, spoken with the doctor, given alternatives, I would say you had done your due dilligence as a parent, and it is informed consent ( albeit, a 10 year old ) then I would go for it ( I am happy with my knowledge around the implants and their safety, and would rely on the doctor for their knowledge around my child, plus my own due dilligence ie. Medical research), who knows, she may back out before it happens.
Kids do far worse things with more severe risks everyday, many unsupervised and without consent.
As mentioned above, kids get their ears pierced which is arguably more risky, young boys are mutilated/assulted every day when they are circumcised without consent and at far more risk than an xSeries install.
I think your next and biggest hurdle is finding somebody who would be willing to do it; You could ask the same pediatric doctor ( Unlikely, but worth a try and at least it will be somebody with medical training and familiarity with childrens anatomy…that sounds dodgy, but you get what I mean ), If the doctor says no, take the same information to some piercers, and as you are in Russia, you may have more open minded people than some other countries.
Some reference material to get you started
Here is a VERY informative FAQ about x-Series implants, some of which is covered below. But it is recommend you read these FAQs.
A doctor, nurse or medic would be able to but they will likely take more convincing…
Watch Needle insertion angle
Whatever you decide, let us know how it goes.
I would also suggest keeping an eye on it periodically, at least until after puberty / growth
In my opinion these are the primary concerns when it comes to still growing bodies… But when it comes to kids, the reason everyone is being extremely careful about giving any advice here at all is that unlike a grown adult who can make their own decisions and suffer any potential consequences of those decisions, a 10yo is definitely not acting with agency. They are good to take your lead on anything, including things that could potentially hurt them. Because of their age, they are not capable of really understanding the risks. This is called informed consent and it’s why kids can’t authorize even medical procedures on themselves… a legal guardian must be involved.
For this reason, the only serious advice anyone can give here is that you need to talk to a medical professional who can properly evaluate and communicate the risks.
Related to informed consent, I also think it’s wise regardless of what the doctor says to give her some time to sit on the idea and see if it has staying power. Separate from the medical implications.
I believe strongly that kids (even ones as young as 11) should have full bodily autonomy. They are still training themselves on the perception of time though. It doesn’t hurt anyone to say “let’s wait a year and see if you still want that” as long as you’re honest and not just deflecting.
Reading this thread made me think of me getting piercings really early on. My mom did exactly this though. She made us wait. My brother wanted his ear pierced, she said talk to me in 6 months. He never brought it up again.
I on the other hand stayed absolutely enthralled with the idea and after a year she let me get my nose pierced. At age 12. It was either 11 or 12. I STILL have that piercing and love it, but I also appreciate that she made me wait. I do this to myself now. If I want a tattoo or piercing I make myself wait. Sometimes I forget it or change my mind and other times it gets inked.
Really I just wanted to say this is some sound advice regardless of age with anything >nearly< permanent.
I am trying to abstractly imagine all the risks that can be realized when inserting a chip into a child based on my experience (70+ installations of glass capsules and subsequent observation of people), and I can’t think of anything awful, except the awkward position of the capsule in the future due to growth of the hand, which will cause discomfort or lead to inconvenient readings. This is easily corrected by removing the capsule (a small operation and quick healing incision) and reinstalling a new capsule in 5-10 years.
It is not traumatic and inexpensive (we in Russia install similar capsules on t5577 for ~2000 rubles along with anesthesia and use of medical glue to close the wound, that’s about $23 at the current exchange rate, I’m even a little embarrassed to call these figures here).
I can’t imagine something as horrible as the capsule migrating through the vessels and getting stuck in the heart, or blocking the blood flow of the hand, or disrupting nerve conduction and innervation of the fingers, because it’s just a glass capsule in the fascia. I would be interested to hear some realistic scenarios in which something goes wrong that cannot be realized in adults, but can be realized in children.
If I were the topic starter, I’d be more concerned about a child telling classmates or a teacher “my father paid someone to have me chipped” and showing the chip, which at a child’s age combined with that description of the situation (not “I wanted my ears pierced first and then the chip in my hand”, but “my father did this to me”) could cause unnecessary questions and eventually a visit from officials. In Russia, government agencies are traditionally nervous about what they don’t understand, and I would instruct the child in what key to talk about chips (or not at all, at least for the next few years). I’ve had a large bank card implant for about 5 years, and I encounter surprise and bewilderment all the time, even in IT. A classmate of my son’s about the same age came home with an inspection because he refused to eat in the school cafeteria, citing the fact that he was vegan - this shows the level of alertness that officials can reach. It’s not true in every case, but I think it’s certainly worth taking action against this course of action.
Okay, I’m going to type out my thoughts before reading the thread. I’ll append my thoughts after having read the thread at the end of this.
My first concern is that she should be looking at the NExT rather than the xEM; kids pull stupid cyber-shenanigans, and our phones are the third half of our brains. Most phones don’t have 125 KHz; most phones have NFC. This is a teachable moment where she can learn about two-factor authentication.
Not a doctor, not a pediatrician, and I skipped developmental biology electives to focus on anatomy & physiology and microbiology, so consider this informed speculation. Knowing that kids at that age tend to heal faster, I’d actually guess that outcomes would be slightly better than in adults; she might heal without even a hint of a scar.
Plus… we microchip dogs, cats, and foals at like a month old, and on such a scale that we’d probably have noticed if there were any problems to be expected in their twenty-odd year lifespans. So yeah, from a purely biological sciences background and informed by a veterinarian friend, I believe that it’s medically safe.
Better first question: Can she demonstrate informed consent? Is she that mature? You might consider getting a child psychologist to assess this.
Second thing is probably going to be having a very frank discussion with her about the PR side of things.
After-thread thougts go here. If you’re reading this, I forgot to edit my post.
If I were a parent I would have to try my best to weigh and consider their reasoning, the utility, and how informed they are on the decision. Personally, despite being a fan, I would have to try and convince my child to reconsider and wait. I mean, it boils down to when a person is developed enough to say they want an ear piercing or a tattoo. This is where I’d say, go ask dad and let me know what he says.
I think it’s bizarre that ear piercing can be done at all kinds of ages but tattoos are super limited by age
On the face it’s the idea that regular standard lobe piercings are “normal”… and deeper than that it’s a bit sexist because I’m sure if you took a 12 year old boy to get ear pierced it would be more difficult
I think my 2 cents is, if a parent is on board, it should be the age that ear piercing (body modification) is allowed
I ordered a NExT for my 14 year old daughter yesterday.
I don’t think there is any issue with it going in between the thumb and forefinger. I spoke to a nurse friend who assures me there should be no problem.
Provided the kid is happy and understands what they are doing and why they want it (in our case opening the house) then I have no concerns.
Hopefully there’s no cps blowback if the kid tells someone about it
Ah I didn’t realize @TSMC55 was from Australia
I was thinking US for some reason
Insert lack of faith in CPS(/gov) joke here
As long as the location is large enough for a standard implant you should be fine. They will grow and the implant will stay still. I know a few people who got them pretty young and it only became an issue because just like a kid in high-school with a new piercing or tattoo everything thinks it’s the coolest thing and was a distraction in class for a few days. They all picked up a reputation for being a cyber punk hacker kid.
Where I live, it is only an offence to pierce a person under 18 years as part of a business transaction, where the piercing is to the genitals or nipples.
Otherwise, provided the person being pierced consents (and is capable of consenting), then it is lawful. Parental consent is not needed, but I would imagine a lot of piercing places would want parental consent.
If it is not done as part of a business transaction, then even piercing genitals or nipples is not illegal.
I have no idea why the Govt would require the business transaction element, as it would likely be safer if you are going to pierce sensitive parts, to have a professional do it rather than some risky backyard job…