Induction heater issues?

Good afternoon, all!
To preface this, I’m basically an idiot when it comes to tech. I’m generally informed about chip implants, and excited about the possibilities, but I am the very definition of PEBKAC, and wouldn’t know what to do with Python if it bit me.

That being said! I’m really interested in getting implanted, the VivoKey stuff looks user friendly enough for even me to get along with.

Here’s the issue. I’m also a blacksmith, and fairly soon will be getting an induction heater to forge with. This… Seems like a bad idea, with metal inside me. I checked the tests that seem to have already been done, and this one seemed to have not come up. Any advice?

Here’s a link to the induction forge I’ll likely be using. Victory Tools Forge Force Induction for Blacksmiths 15 KW - Forged Ironmongery

Many thanks all!


Oh my. That’s a very powerful device . I understand your hesitation. Here’s the technical specs they provide:

Here are my thoughts. There are two potentially problematic interactions this device could have with an implant.

  1. Overvoltage frying the chip electronically
  2. Eddy currents heating up the implant materials

Overvoltage: I would avoid bringing low frequency implants like the xEM, NExT, flexEM, and LF xLED near this device. While it maxes out at 100kHz, it will still get close enough to the target frequency for the LC tank circuit in the chip that is tuned for 125kHz to pick it up. This device outputs 15KVA with a max output of 60A. That means it could induce 250V AC inside the implant and fry the chip.

HF implants will likely not be susceptible to this overvoltage condition, because they are tuned to 13.56MHz. We already learned from Mariarangok that not all commercial devices operate within spec though. They could configure the device such that there is ringing and inductive kick in the drive circuits that create higher frequency harmonics. They would not pass EMI testing regulations, but for commercial products they may not have to.

Eddy Currents: I suspect this will be a non-issue based on my previous testing, and the fact that the flex and x-series are MRI safe.

Eddy currents are what is happening in the metal that you intend to heat, but instead it could happen in the implant materials and heat it up. The thing is that Iron is ferromagnetic and resists the change of the oscillating magnetic field causing internal friction, which creates heat. Metals like Copper and Aluminium are paramagnetic. They recieve virtually no heat from induction, so the flex series should be fine.

The x-series have a ferrite core which is ferromagnetic, but it is a specially constructed material with high “coercivity” which is designed to allow magnetic fields as fast as 13.56MHz to pass through it without heating. If you don’t already know about domains in the crystal structure of metals then I recommend you do some research. It’s fascinating stuff and understanding how metals are structured on a molecular level will make you a much better blacksmith. There’s a reason you anneal and quench and pick specific compositions of metals and carbon.

All that being said, you should still test before you approach this thing with even HF implants. Buy some NTAG 216 test cards online, tape one to a dowel, turn on the device, and hold the card near it in various orientations for a few minutes. If it still scans afterwards try an HF field detector and see if the LED burns out.


That was… Honestly, a way more comprehensive answer than I was expecting!

Thank you very much for taking the time - I’ll do the experiments that you suggest after the forge is here and report back after, if that would be of interest?

I’m aware of basic crystal structure, mainly in tool steels, and for practical application. Do you have any suggested reading for a more comprehensive view?

Many thanks again!


No problem mate. We would all love to hear back about your testing, and pictures would be great as well. Since you may be using a field detector from DT in your testing, I’ll make you the same deal I made Spyfoxls in the Power Bracelet thread. If you’re somehow able to fry a HF field tester and get it on video, I’ll make sure you get a replacement field detector from DT. I doubt you’ll be able to succeed even with that beast though.

As far as resources for learning more, Wikipedia is your friend as always. I also learned some valuable info in a Materials Science class at Uni, so “acquiring” one of those textbooks might be valuable as well. Hit me up if you want to talk anything over. I’m really interested in metallurgy and I’m sure we can learn from each other.

Crystal structure - Wikipedia (specifically “grain boundary”)

Phase diagram - Wikipedia (how alloy composition affects the structure and phases of a material. Most commonly used for carbon steels)

Magnetic domain - Wikipedia (only relevant for non stainless steels and iron, but magnetism affects the formation of grains)

Quick question: Is the read function on the blue cloner a good way to tell if a NExT is still alive? This thing couldn’t rewrite information on my chip could it?

If I’m understanding this thread correctly, I should not be worried about any of my chip implants heating up, but low frequency coils (125khz) could act like a Tesla coils’ secondary and fry the chip?

Edit: Forgot to mention I’m using a LF detector in the video

Usually a read operation on a blue cloner or any other device won’t write anything (but I would still be wary, you could use a test card). The blue cloner has to be able to read whatever your tag is configured as, but it should beep if the LF part of your tag has been left in the EM4100 default configuration

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That said, Iceman told me that the T5577 chip has an odd quirk that can create problems… basically if the chip has no password set but you attempt to read the chip while doing auth with a password, it can kinda brick the chip or put it into an odd state. It seems to be a bug of some kind in the T5577 chip.

The blue cloner sets a password when it writes, but honestly I have no idea if the blue cloner would attempt to read with that password or not… but I do have a story where I did read a keyfob that used a T5577 chip and after reading it with the blue cloner that keyfob was dead and wiped… so… ??

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Thank you both very much! I still get the proper amount of beeps from the blue cloner when I read my NExT, so I believe it’s fine. I don’t have a proxmark to check any of the contents though, so I’ll be adding the DT proxmark to my shopping list :sweat_smile:

This is the first time I’ve read about a faulty READ function, it looks like I won’t be using a blue cloner on my implant anymore. I appreciate all the information.