Magic NTAG vs magic 1k?

The KSEC Tagbase states that even gen2 cards are detectable as being magic. How so? Does the reader attempt to write to them?

As stated in the table, it is Lab401s list but I can check.

Ah that’s right. Thanks :slight_smile:

Hahaha, how frustrated are you right now?
You asked 3 times and were blatantly ignored… The bastards :wink: .

CORRECT

Sorry mate, you will need an xM1 or FlexM1
Your choice of gen1a vs gen2

Great post here explaining the difference

RE: the Proxmark, you can actually write to a Gen2 with your phone.
BUT
The LF T5577 you will need the Proxmark3 (or blue cloner)
Any future implants including the FlexMN you will need a Proxmark3.

I know why you are trying to avoid it and I don’t blame you, but until something better comes along, (Flipper Zero :crossed_fingers:t3: ) The PM3 is your best bet.

THANK YOU! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :triumph:

I’ll get a pm3, the thing that scares me the most is messing up while learning to use it tbh

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If you are scared of messing up, I would recommend that you pick up some test cards with the same chips that you want to use in your implants (for example, the T557 test card for the xEM/LF part of the NeXT) from KSEC, or even their complete bundle. So if you do mess up, you only brick a 3$ test card, and not a shiny new expensive implant. You can also test if you were sucessful using the test card. Also keep in mind that there can be problems with coupling with implanted chips, so if I were you, I would look into the DIY LF antenna for the Proxmark3 Easy.

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Hello new rabbit hole! Take my money! :sweat_smile:

Yeah, the initial investment tends to be pretty high… thank god that there is the Proxmark3 Easy, because if we all had to buy the standard Proxmark3 RDV4 we would be crying bloody tears (the thing is 320$)…
If money is an issue, I could take a look if I have any test cards lying around an send them to you, free of charge. Which ones are you interested in specifically?

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A magic 1k gen1 and magic NTAG (flexNM) are the two implant I’m planning on getting soon.
I’ll look into the Pm3 Easy thanks! (it has LF and HF antennas included?)

Also I was already thinking of getting a ProxGrind ChameleonTiny Pro… any chance that would do it?

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sorta… the mifare classic is not NFC compliant so the utility of having NDEF on a mifare classic 1k is limited to 1) only android phones, and 2) only android phones with NXP reader chips (broadcom chips in android phones will not read user memory of a mifare classic, for example).

no, only setting it up with parameters you want. after that you can write data to it with a phone or whatever… but positioning the phone over the chip requires some finesse to get it to properly write.

you need a proxmark3 (or acr122u with proper software) if you want to issue the back door command to a gen1a magic mifare chip. that includes overwriting user memory sectors if you don’t have proper keys for them.

everyone with an RFID device under their skin should have a proxmark3. it’s the defacto tool for doing anything remotely interesting with RFID.

naa… you’ll never be able to change the UID… bad idea… and user sectors can still get bricked… gen2 is only for those who really understand the risks but want the ability to write changes to it with their phones. basically if you have a collection of key files and card rip files on your phone you can use the MCT app to quickly change around the configuration of your gen2 device… or if you need to use your implant with a reader that does active magic 1k chip detection… but other than those two things, it’s sorta not worth getting a gen2 in my opinion.

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It does, it can do both HF and LF, but as mentioned, coupling with an implant can be a bit of an issue sometimes (that’s why I recommended looking into the DIY antenna).

Either way, if you want to use the flexM1 gen1 and the flexMN, you will need an Proxmark3 Easy (or an ACR122u or similar). I would really spring for the Proxmark, since it’s pretty much the be all and end all (aside from its more expensive brother, which you very probably dont need) and the most used device in this community, so you would be able to get a bit of support here. It’s commandline UI is a bit intimdating, but it is very powerful.

I think I have those at my familys home, so I could send them to you in a couple of weeks. PM me if interested.

Nah, the Chameleon is just an emulation device AFAIK, so I don’t think it would cut it. Also, I think the Proxmark is cheaper :stuck_out_tongue:

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@amal is this the same chip in the flexMN that KSEC offers? Sorry, I just wasn’t sure

Even with Flexs ? :open_mouth: Also does the FlexM1 have a much better range than the xM1? It’s not mentioned on the DT site.

Ok! Great!

Sure! thanks! You are my new favorite cyborg :wink:

probably? hard to tell when you’re buying from grey market chinese criminals :wink:

yeah it’s an attribute of the magic chip… it’s easy to get it to couple but not easy to get it to couple “just right” to get the writing function to work.

never forget that all magic chips are made by black market underground chip fabs breaking tons of intellectual property law. it’s like demanding your cocaine be 100% pure from the street urchin you bought it from. there are going to be quirks.

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Generally, all flexes have a much better range than their x series (so glass, pill-shaped implant) counterparts. Neither is as good as a full size card, though. It is common for people to be disappointed with the read range on their x series, or even wedge flexes sometimes. The best range usually comes from the really gigantic flexes like the flexNEXT (discontinued) or the flexMN (the non-wedge form factor).
so x-series < flex (wedge) < flex (disc). It also depends on the chip.
Coupling is more important during writing/configuration than in use.
It is also very dependent on the reader (for example, see Roscos adventure with a transit pass conversion - he can’t really use it at all with the readers installed in the busses near him).

Okay, I’ve had two FlexNeXTs and a spark2 so I see the difference in those but I never jad a wedge for comparison :thinking: I expect it to read everytime without adjusting but not through the hand like the FlexNeXT, right?

this hits on the reason I like to use the word performance over range. there are 3 elements when it comes to tag “performance”…

  • range (distance from reader)
  • rotational orientation (rotational angle you must orient the tag and reader at)
  • offset (what offset or “how far away” from “the sweet spot” can you get a read)

range accounts for only a single dimension (how far away)… but the narrow shape of the flex wedge antenna means that orientation also matters to maximize range… so “performance” is “how easy is it to read” which includes both range and orientation requirements… a circle antenna requires no special orientation because it is a circle… every angle is the same… so with a circle antenna only diameter (size) impacts range… but there is still the offset element with circle antennas… and generally the larger the diameter the more offset you can have and still get a good read.

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Rosco doesn’t seem to think so, but his M1K is an IAR equivalent of xM1 so not a direct comparison.

I am not sure if anybody else has done any tests between them…

Sounds like I need to get both so I can answer these questions.

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Curious statement: I get the grey market bit, but how are they criminals?

Don’t oversell the “much” better range here. Slim / wedge shaped flex devices do have a slightly better range, but it’s nothing to write home about really. Their main claim to fame is to be able to wake-up or interface with difficult readers that a glassie wouldn’t even be able to interact with. But you ain’t gonna get anywhere close to the read range of even a small coin-sized tag.

The flexNExT was a NFC sticker in a magic Amal goop dress. It had the performances of a NFC sicker :slight_smile: (and boy do I miss it)

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