Paying with my hand (yes, that question again) 😁

All, nice to meet you. You have some badass videos out there using this tech! I have wanted to pay with my hand when the idea first came up in the early 2000s, but please verify my understanding as this ability is limited…?

Dangerous things will take my charge card - if its the right card - and peel off the chip and embed it in a class casing. I can then put that in my hand? And of course if something goes wrong there is no way to change/update/clone it, etc, as that is why it must be peeled off my card. So there is some limited possibility this will work, and a limited timeframe on how long it will work depending on what my bank does…

Do I have the correct understanding of this?
And how hard is it to get these out of your hand assuming it has a limited life?

Thanks!!

You’re almost right except for the fact that dangerous things won’t put it in a glass casing they will attach it to a flex antenna and bio coat it, so this is not one you can inject because it’s not a pill shaped implant

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You also need to remove the chip from the yourself, as I understand it. An oven at 175 F makes it pretty easy and doesn’t involve the nastiness of acetone.

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I would much rather suggest using acetone. Chips themselves can only get so hot before failing and cooking plastic is a bad idea regardless

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The length of time it will work for is the lifespan of the card. This is set by you bank/credit service and varies from country to country, bank to bank, contract to contract but is rarely over five years.

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Don’t mess with the card before talking to Dangerous Things, doing so could make the conversion process a lot harder:

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(Feel free to ignore this and skip on to Amal’s far more informed post)

The plastic doesn’t melt at that temperature. It just becomes supple. Satur9 mentioned is his CoM post that the EMV chips can handle up to 200 C (392 F). Looking closer, PVC is fine as long as it doesn’t burn, which occurs at 284 degrees Fahrenheit. You’re right in that if that shit cooks off, it’s extremely toxic. Too much time in an acetone bath will also mess things up while off gassing the whole time which present much more immediate and constant health risks and also forces you to handle the chip with metal tools (so they don’t break down in the acetone) which presents further risks of damaging it during removal.

All that too say, I’ve only removed one and I really hate working with acetone so I’m definitely biased.

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The interesting thing about acetone is that our bodies make it naturally. It’s broken down by the liver, but there’s always some in your blood at any given time.

As long as you are working in a decently ventilated area, acetone is ok… but gently heating PVC can also be effective.

If you rent to go the acetone route your don’t need much. Place in a glass container you don’t mind tossing out after. Just put enough acetone in so the card is covered by a few mm of liquid. Find a cover to piece over. I use glass-lock food storage. The plastic used in the snap on covers isn’t affected by acetone.

If you’re using nail polish remover or low quality acetone then you may need more liquid, but the nice thing is that you can use just enough that the PVC gets rubbery instead of melting away, and this is ideal for module removal.

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Thank you!
And I hate to ask the obvious question, but how then is it inserted (or please direct me to the dangerous things link that describes this as I have not seen it)?

Thank you.

And I am lost :grin:. Are you describing (and the posts above you) how to remove the chip? I have zero interest in that…although I do find the process fascinating, just not interested in doing it myself. That is a dangerous things service, right? The one where they cant guarantee it works…? I am fine with that risk.
I am just not 100% sure how it gets inserted.
I get how all the other prebuilt dangerous things products are inserted…

Thank you

Custom needle ( normally ) it depends on the form factor, but that will likely be it.

It could also be done with a scalpel to make the incision, and then another tool to make the cavity, the implant is then inserted, and closed up with a stitch or two, or possibly an adhesive.

It all comes down to what the installer is comfortable with and what they can legally do.

Here are a couple of videos that should answer your questions

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Am I the only one who often gets confused with the title of this thread and reads it as “playing”?

:robot_gundam:

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PilgrimsMaster covered it but id just like to add onto what the process is like

With not being able to inject it the aforementioned custom needle could be used and is a widely more accepted method of insertion as in many places (like the UK) installers are either unfamiliar or legally unable to to use scalpels, but it boils down to the same concept at the end of

Creating the pocket, removing the tool used to create the pocket and then manually sliding the implant into the hole.

Having done this one to myself (I’m crazy. do not copy my madness) I can tell you it’s not much worse than an injectable (x-series) in terms of pain/discomfort and a good installer should be able to handle the process with ease

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I feel like I remember @Satur9 mentioning that the encapsulated width was 12mm vs the common 7.5mm of the (at least) new flexies which probably puts it outside of the needle range but @amal would know for sure.

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Yeah the CoM conversion is much larger and requires a scalpel for installation.

good point, I didn’t include CoM in the above since we havent seen the card / chip yet.
I was focusing on the Payment conversion
We do need some more info from the OP…

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Standard charge card in the US, with a chip on it…is this what you are looking for? I pulled this off the web, but mine is exactly the same:

CoM chips have one or two traces between the contacts on the chip. I’m pretty sure that Satur9 has posted pictures of this before but I’m not an IA and couldn’t find them.

I’m not sure if the contactless payment chips that have both the contacts on the front and the antenna soldered to the back can be converted? CoM chips have a coil that couples with the antenna that’s embedded in the card.

haha, now I am seeing it too!

Pretty sure the reason you can’t find it is because it’s a DT Club post. :wink:

However, here’s a little snippet he’s posted in an open thread:

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