All, nice to meet you. You have some badass videos out there using this tech! I have wanted to pay with my hand when the idea first came up in the early 2000s, but please verify my understanding as this ability is limitedā¦?
Dangerous things will take my charge card - if its the right card - and peel off the chip and embed it in a class casing. I can then put that in my hand? And of course if something goes wrong there is no way to change/update/clone it, etc, as that is why it must be peeled off my card. So there is some limited possibility this will work, and a limited timeframe on how long it will work depending on what my bank doesā¦
Do I have the correct understanding of this?
And how hard is it to get these out of your hand assuming it has a limited life?
Youāre almost right except for the fact that dangerous things wonāt put it in a glass casing they will attach it to a flex antenna and bio coat it, so this is not one you can inject because itās not a pill shaped implant
You also need to remove the chip from the yourself, as I understand it. An oven at 175 F makes it pretty easy and doesnāt involve the nastiness of acetone.
The length of time it will work for is the lifespan of the card. This is set by you bank/credit service and varies from country to country, bank to bank, contract to contract but is rarely over five years.
(Feel free to ignore this and skip on to Amalās far more informed post)
The plastic doesnāt melt at that temperature. It just becomes supple. Satur9 mentioned is his CoM post that the EMV chips can handle up to 200 C (392 F). Looking closer, PVC is fine as long as it doesnāt burn, which occurs at 284 degrees Fahrenheit. Youāre right in that if that shit cooks off, itās extremely toxic. Too much time in an acetone bath will also mess things up while off gassing the whole time which present much more immediate and constant health risks and also forces you to handle the chip with metal tools (so they donāt break down in the acetone) which presents further risks of damaging it during removal.
All that too say, Iāve only removed one and I really hate working with acetone so Iām definitely biased.
The interesting thing about acetone is that our bodies make it naturally. Itās broken down by the liver, but thereās always some in your blood at any given time.
As long as you are working in a decently ventilated area, acetone is okā¦ but gently heating PVC can also be effective.
If you rent to go the acetone route your donāt need much. Place in a glass container you donāt mind tossing out after. Just put enough acetone in so the card is covered by a few mm of liquid. Find a cover to piece over. I use glass-lock food storage. The plastic used in the snap on covers isnāt affected by acetone.
If youāre using nail polish remover or low quality acetone then you may need more liquid, but the nice thing is that you can use just enough that the PVC gets rubbery instead of melting away, and this is ideal for module removal.
Thank you!
And I hate to ask the obvious question, but how then is it inserted (or please direct me to the dangerous things link that describes this as I have not seen it)?
And I am lost . Are you describing (and the posts above you) how to remove the chip? I have zero interest in thatā¦although I do find the process fascinating, just not interested in doing it myself. That is a dangerous things service, right? The one where they cant guarantee it worksā¦? I am fine with that risk.
I am just not 100% sure how it gets inserted.
I get how all the other prebuilt dangerous things products are insertedā¦
Custom needle ( normally ) it depends on the form factor, but that will likely be it.
It could also be done with a scalpel to make the incision, and then another tool to make the cavity, the implant is then inserted, and closed up with a stitch or two, or possibly an adhesive.
It all comes down to what the installer is comfortable with and what they can legally do.
Here are a couple of videos that should answer your questions
PilgrimsMaster covered it but id just like to add onto what the process is like
With not being able to inject it the aforementioned custom needle could be used and is a widely more accepted method of insertion as in many places (like the UK) installers are either unfamiliar or legally unable to to use scalpels, but it boils down to the same concept at the end of
Creating the pocket, removing the tool used to create the pocket and then manually sliding the implant into the hole.
Having done this one to myself (Iām crazy. do not copy my madness) I can tell you itās not much worse than an injectable (x-series) in terms of pain/discomfort and a good installer should be able to handle the process with ease
I feel like I remember @Satur9 mentioning that the encapsulated width was 12mm vs the common 7.5mm of the (at least) new flexies which probably puts it outside of the needle range but @amal would know for sure.
good point, I didnāt include CoM in the above since we havent seen the card / chip yet.
I was focusing on the Payment conversion
We do need some more info from the OPā¦
CoM chips have one or two traces between the contacts on the chip. Iām pretty sure that Satur9 has posted pictures of this before but Iām not an IA and couldnāt find them.
Iām not sure if the contactless payment chips that have both the contacts on the front and the antenna soldered to the back can be converted? CoM chips have a coil that couples with the antenna thatās embedded in the card.
. Are you describing (and the posts above you) how to remove the chip? I have zero interest in thatā¦although I do find the process fascinating, just not interested in doing it myself. That is a dangerous things service, right? The one where they cant guarantee it worksā¦? I am fine with that risk.
