The antiđŸš«-derailment🚃 & threadđŸ§” hijackingđŸ”« threadđŸ§” ⁉

Lounge
1259

Great!

1260

Don’t take what I said as an incitation. You really shouldn’t drink. It’s just that my superhuman liver and my utter stupidity allows me to. Not you :slight_smile:

1261

Right ofc not, I’d never do such a thing :wink: I’m not even of legal age. What’s alcohol?

1262

I don’t know but if I continue going out with my new Finnish friends, I might find out.

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1263

Have you heard the joke about the to Finnish guys:
-How was your summer?
-I don’t remember, dude. I was drunk both days!

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1264

There ain’t nothing wrong with being a whore, but using the term as a derogatory isn’t cool in any context.

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1265

I’m going to assume you’re joking here. Surely


1266

No, I am 100% serious. The term “whoring bitch” is pretty fucked up. I don’t care if you’re using it to describe an Amazon Alexa, or a human being. That’s some fucked up language.

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1267

sigh

image

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1268

Depends on what kind of philosophy you’re talking about. What most people (including myself, most of the time) call philosophy is just thinking about stuff and discussing things, without any scientific background to this discussion itself. But if you take “serious” philosophy, there is a lot of science to it. The way an argument is made correctly, and all that - I’m not too deep into it, but a girl I know studies this stuff, and I’m really surprised how much mathematics and other “real” science is in philosophy. Don’t underestimate that :wink: Additionally, logic is a big part in both philosophy and mathematics, and if done right, philosophy can definitely help solve problems we currently discuss here.

This is totally true. Still, I am very sure that Rosco didn’t mean to discriminate against sexworkers. And while it is true that we all might need to have a close look at our own language, I think it is equally important how this critique is brought on. Otherwise, it will just end discussions that were actually civil and interesting, because of something someone sometime said that was maybe not thought through.

edit: just something I’m not sure about - if you call someone a “whoring bitch” who actually is a whoring bitch - is that a problem, too? I mean, I can call an asshole an asshole, so why is that (rude, but) okay, but not if I’d call a whoring bitch a whoring bitch?

1269

calling anyone a whore is generally pretty frowned upon and is considered derogatory. a sex worker can call themselves a whore, but it should otherwise not be used to describe someone unless explicitly stated otherwise.

it’s something I can’t gloss over, and need to call out/raise awareness of, that’s all, regardless of who says it. language is how we communicate and it’s good to be aware of these things :slight_smile:

EDIT: don’t want to derail the thread. just wanted to flag that. carry on.

1270

I’ve got a little problem with that, I think it’s a bit hypocritical. It’s similar to how black people can call themselves black (and me white) without any problem, but I have to use stupid made-up terms like whatever seems politically correct nowadays, even if the context and all that clearly show that I’m pretty left politically. The term “sex worker” is relatively new (at least in casual language), and it still feels strange, and I think that’s one of the problems many people have with PC-terms. Language is how we communicate, yes, but more often than not language starts to feel like a mine field where you can always stomp on someone’s toes, even if it was totally clear that nothing was said to hurt someone. If we had a discussion about sex workers here and Rosco had described one of them as a whoring bitch, I’d totally understand the anger. But the way it is now, it feels more like pointing at someone for stepping one step away from the safe path.
I understand the point of it and all, and I can clearly see that this is a very important topic for you, and I agree that it is important to be aware of such things. But still, this behaviour might hurt others as well, for they constantly feel misunderstood even though they meant no harm. :wink:

1271

Happy to discuss this in another thread or via DMs - don’t wanna derail this thread too much :slight_smile:

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1272

Rosco you don’t want political correctness to get in the way of your ability to hold a conversation, so when it comes up you storm off? Nothing about what ithritin said required you to end the conversation there. They have just as much a right to say what they want as you do. You are not being censured, but you are censuring others by being unable to continue when others say things you don’t like. Calm down.

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1273

SJWs irritate the shit out of me. So I’d better sign off before I become nasty.

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1274

On that, good night all.

1275

Feel similar, sometimes, but since I like to understand things that irritate me, I like to discuss such things :wink: Maybe we should make a derailing-sjw-thread, just to understand things and maybe make the other point of view clear as well? Without drama, without personal attacking, with a lot of valium perhaps? :wink:

1276

I saw the edit
 shall we carry on here?

1277

A few things in here that I wanted to kinda address, and please know that I’m not angrily swearing and yelling at you :slight_smile: Legit discussing this but it’s something worth talking about.

I mean, black is the correct and accepted term. You wouldn’t call a black person the ‘N’ word right? It was used as a derogatory word, and black people reclaimed it as a word only they can use. It’s the same thing with sex workers. Whore has a lot of stigma attached to it and is pretty much only ever used as a negative descriptor. Sex workers are simply reclaiming it.

Yep, true, but there is damn good reason for this. One of the biggest reasons is because it forces people to frame sex workers as legitimate workers, aka “sex work is work”.

I can understand that, but at the same time it’s someone saying “Hey, you said something that was hurtful and/or offensive.” and the other person saying “So what?”. Perhaps it’s a good time to step back and ask how or why that thing was offensive and learn about it. You may still not agree with it, but at least listening, learning and then choosing to discontinue/continue saying it is the nicer thing to do eh?

It’s not so much about being politically correct all the damn time, it’s more about certain words and terms and the meaning behind those words. Whore has a tonne of negative stigma attached to it and is inherently violent towards sex workers as well as women, because it’s almost exclusively used to describe women. So I mean, throwing it together as “whoring bitch” is a pretty inflammatory term.

I know Rosco wasn’t using it in that sense and he wasn’t attacking anyone, I just wanted to point out that the term used in any context, is kinda wrong. I was more calling it out like “Hey, that’s not cool.” as I would if my friends had said it while hanging out and chatting with them. It also doesn’t take much to ask “How/why is that offensive?” and learn about it than to get all pissed off that you can’t say what you want to. It helps you grow as a person.

Did I say things like “that’s gay” and make misogynistic jokes as a kid? I sure did. But then I learned why those kinds of things are offensive and unacceptable, and I changed my language and behaviour.

And again, all I said was;

I wasn’t meaning to open a whole can o’ worms and I’m happy to discuss it everyone in a civil manner :blush:

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1278

Thanks a lot for explaining - that’s what I was kinda hoping for, and thanks Pilgrim for moving it here for further discussion :wink: We already showed that we can handle hot topics here, let’s keep it that way :slight_smile:

Okay, that’s great - in Germany, saying “black” is really frowned upon, and I’m starting to lose words I can safely use here
^^ I’d never use the N-word, of course, for that is clearly racist. But saying black is just describing what I see, it’s not saying that black is any better or worse than white or whatever. And still, in Germany, that’s kinda “not allowed” - you might say “people of color”, okay, but “colored people” is wrong again - that’s why I feel like walking in a mine field sometimes. I’ve got family in Mosambique, and the people there don’t give a f* what words you use


The equivalent to “whore” in Germany is not as derogative, I think - it’s used in a neutral or negative way, depending on the situation.

Okay, I didn’t know that one - that’s a good reason to use that term. For me it was always obvious that this is some pretty hard work (and I’m glad there are ladys and gentlemen doing that job!), but it might not be that obvious to others, so maybe a good idea to remind them.

This would indeed be the best reaction, but the thing that actually happens is - person a says something, person b says “hey, that’s not so nice” and person a rolls his eyes and thinks “hell, another of those over-sensitive SJWs”. I sometimes catch myself rolling my eyes, yes
 because sometimes people pick on every tiny thing they can find (not talking about you here, but I guess you know the situation), and you get the feeling that you can’t say anything the way it was formed in your head, you have to rethink everything before saying it, and that’s just - exhausting. Additionally, especially in Germany, things tend to go a bit too far - currently, they are retexting children’s songs and rewriting children’s books to be more politically correct, and things that nobody ever thought of as racist or sexist or whatever are suddenly politicised. That’s not a good thing, and therefore people are over-sensitive to over-sensitive people, in a way :smile: