The anti🚫-derailment🚃 & thread🧵 hijacking🔫 thread🧵 ⁉

[anon2520759]

Yeah, there’s definitely subtle differences in words that can have very different meanings

Kinda like in English, to refer to the collective as “Blacks” is pretty bad, rather than saying “Black people”. Just like they kept saying in the US Presidential debate, but who’s surprised there? And there are distinctions between Black and African-American.

I used to get annoyed with politically-correct people too, but there are usually pretty good arguments and reasons for things, and most of them stem from places of oppression and such. I think learning to have more empathy definitely helped me there

And folks here in Canada kicked up a HUGE stink about them changing a single word in the Canadian anthem, from;

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

to

True patriot love in all of us command.

People were screaming how PC SJW’s were ruining the sacred anthem, when really it just became more inclusive. I think if anything it just shows that we are learning and progressing as a culture and realising that a lot of language we use as default seems harmless, but if you really stop and think… sometimes there really is a lot of pain and trauma attached to things for a great number of people. Well that, and people generally don’t like change or to be told they’re wrong.

I mean, look at the shitstorm pronouns have unleashed on the world. Such a simple little thing, but it matters to a whole lotta people

[Coma]

@anon2520759

people generally don’t like change or to be told they’re wrong

Both of that - and that’s one of the reasons why…

@anon2520759

look at the shitstorm pronouns have unleashed on the world

…this happened
I am totally okay with each person on earth being addressed the way he /she / it wants, no problem - but I need to have a fair chance to be right If I meet someone for the first time (the example I know about was a waitress, serving a customer), I take a look at the person and address him / her the way I think is right - if it looks like a lady, I might address the person as “she / her”. If that’s wrong and I’m told that, okay, I’ll address her any way she wants, fine with that. But in that case, the waitress was verbally attacked for being intolerant and whatever, though she couldn’t know how her customer wanted to be addressed, and that’s not fair I think.
And to be honest, it still feels strange to write about, for example, Lepht Anonym as “it”. It states online that it wants it that way, but when I grew up, it was extremely derogatory to refer to a human being as “it”. So it feels wrong to do so, even if it wants it

[amal]

Language is funny.

Things are constantly in flux and explaining one’s self occasionally becomes necessary. For example… to me “whoring bitch” has a breakdown which has nothing to do with sexwork…

Whoring / whore - hurled as an insult, to me is simply means someone or something who pretends to be loyal to you, has your best interest in mind, etc. but in fact is working for someone else’s interest… possibly their own… possibly in collaboration with a 3rd party. It has nothing to do (in my mind) with the profession of getting paid for performing sexual acts… but one could see how this meaning has been loosely derived from such a business arrangement.

Bitch - adds emphasis

So to me, Rosco’s use of the term whoring bitch conveyed to me that alexa is the spying bitch @Coma described her as and adds a financial element to it (selling my data, betraying my privacy, etc.)

It is a nebulous situation for sure, but surly not nefarious.

[Coma]

@amal

Language is funny

That’s why we should talk about it with humour and no anger

@amal

So to me, Rosco’s use of the term whoring bitch conveyed to me that alexa is the spying bitch @Coma described her as and adds a financial element to it (selling my data, betraying my privacy, etc.)

That’s why I was defending Rosco a bit as well - we had our fair amount of hot discussion about other topics, but this here wasn’t in the context of women, sex workers or anything similar, and I understood it in the same way you did. It’s still a bit hard for me to understand that a word can be a taboo in every context, and I’m not sure if I agree on that. Maybe I take language as a whole too lightheartedly - I can get angry over words, too, but for me, it really depends on the context.

[anon2520759]

Oh yeah, it totes wasn’t nefarious, like I said I just wanted to flag it kinda like “Hey, that’s a bit of bad term to use.”

@amal

Whoring / whore - hurled as an insult, to me is simply means someone or something who pretends to be loyal to you, has your best interest in mind, etc. but in fact is working for someone else’s interest… possibly their own… possibly in collaboration with a 3rd party. It has nothing to do (in my mind) with the profession of getting paid for performing sexual acts… but one could see how this meaning has been loosely derived from such a business arrangement.

I can’t say I’ve ever heard someone interpret it that way before!

And again, I have to stress; I know Rosco wasn’t trying to be offensive to anyone. I just meant to flag it, same as if someone came in saying something like “Yeah whatever, that’s so gay.”

[Pilgrimsmaster]

Language is highly cultural, for example, I use the word Cunt all the time, and it comes down to HOW it is said MORE than what is said.
I have given examples on this forum before, where somebody could be a good cunt, and that would mean they are a just an all around good person, and again a Fucken’ good cunt would be emphasis to that, whereas, calling somebody a Cunt would be insulting, and a Fucken’ Cunt is normally reserved for the type of person that might get Covid but you would also genuinely hope they died from it.
Somebody could also make a cunt of something, meaning they stuffed something up.
“Stop being a cunt” really depends on how it is said and the volume, it could be aggressive, it could be, stop being facetious / stupid.
In my office, the word Cunt load is a measure of the LARGE variety, and is understood more easily than oz, lbs, stones, inches, feet, yard, miles etc.
If I say the word cunt, and somebody takes offence at it, it would depend on the situation, but I would likely say, “Oh, don’t worry, it is spelt with a K” if nothing else it usually gets a confused laugh

With regards to the Canadian anthem, I personally find that silly, Sons in that context is CLEARLY not gender descriptive but rather, humanity, just like mankind is not referring to only males…

The term whore, though it could be perceived by some as derogatory, there are many instances I know of where it wouldn’t be, so again it comes down to the context and tone,also the use the term man-whore, similar meaning to a “playa” , more of a description than an insult, again, it could be used in the phrase, “I’m going out whoring tonight” not meaning to go out and visit a prostitute, but rather go out and try and “get lucky” and probably with as many people as possible. It could equally be a female going out to get some cock, and again, if a gay guy said he was going whoring, I would assume he is going out in the search of cock etc…
To me, I actually find it funny, putting a female gender onto the word whore, to me it comes down to the person placing that label on it.

What I am trying to say is

@amal

Language is funny.

[anon2520759]

I mean… I didn’t want to get into a super nuanced discussion, but even the difference you used between ‘whore’ and ‘man-whore’ just shows that the former is (as I said) almost exclusively used for women. Not always, but mostly.

And all of your examples had to do with sex

At the end of the day, ‘whore’ by definition is a full service sex worker. Those very people deem the term to be derogatory. To call someone a whore is mostly either;

a) to describe their occupation
b) to insult them

If sex workers are trying to change the way we use the word, who are we to argue? And like I said, a huge reason is because the term is degrading, dehumanizing and full of negative stigma. ‘Sex worker’ should be used as a replacement because it humanizes the sex worker.

“Whoring” of course refers to the occupation. Let’s say you use it as “4 more weeks of corporate whoring and I can afford that car!” ie; four more weeks of working for money, like a ‘whore’. Even if you use the term as Amal said, as someone who pretends to be loyal to you and your best interests, but actually doesn’t - that’s still using it as a negative descriptor. This is also problematic as this is often how women, especially sex workers, are negatively perceived.

My whole thing about that the phrase “whoring bitch” in the original post was;

a) used specifically with feminine pronouns (“and you don’t think she’s a…”)
b) used to describe her negatively; a slur

Again, I know he didn’t use it to deliberately be offensive or malicious, but I am just trying to raise awareness that yes, these days the word & term are seen as offensive and there are plenty of other words we can use in their place Language sure is funny and complex, but it’s these kind of distinctions that help us progress and move forward. Sex workers are helping us to be better people by not using dehumanizing language and I think that’s pretty great

Addendum: think of the word “slaves”. A lot of historians, teachers and educators, especially in the Black community no longer use that word but instead use “enslaved people” because it separates a person’s identity from his/her circumstance.

“Tranny” is another term people use lightly/jokingly but is derogatory and shouldn’t be used. Heck, even ‘prostitute’ is no longer being used!

[Atilla]

Summary

@Pilgrimsmaster

Language is highly cultural, for example, I use the word Cunt all the time, and it comes down to HOW it is said MORE than what is said.
I have given examples on this forum before, where somebody could be a good cunt, and that would mean they are a just an all around good person, and again a Fucken’ good cunt would be emphasis to that, whereas, calling somebody a Cunt would be insulting, and a Fucken’ Cunt is normally reserved for the type of person that might get Covid but you would also genuinely hope they died from it.
Somebody could also make a cunt of something, meaning they stuffed something up.
“Stop being a cunt” really depends on how it is said and the volume, it could be aggressive, it could be, stop being facetious / stupid.
In my office, the word Cunt load is a measure of the LARGE variety, and is understood more easily than oz, lbs, stones, inches, feet, yard, miles etc.
If I say the word cunt, and somebody takes offence at it, it would depend on the situation, but I would likely say, “Oh, don’t worry, it is spelt with a K” if nothing else it usually gets a confused laugh

With regards to the Canadian anthem, I personally find that silly, Sons in that context is CLEARLY not gender descriptive but rather, humanity, just like mankind is not referring to only males…

The term whore, though it could be perceived by some as derogatory, there are many instances I know of where it wouldn’t be, so again it comes down to the context and tone,also the use the term man-whore, similar meaning to a “playa” , more of a description than an insult, again, it could be used in the phrase, “I’m going out whoring tonight” not meaning to go out and visit a prostitute, but rather go out and try and “get lucky” and probably with as many people as possible. It could equally be a female going out to get some cock, and again, if a gay guy said he was going whoring, I would assume he is going out in the search of cock etc…
To me, I actually find it funny, putting a female gender onto the word whore, to me it comes down to the person placing that label on it.

What I am trying to say is

@amal

Language is funny.

@anon2520759

I mean… I didn’t want to get into a super nuanced discussion, but even the difference you used between ‘whore’ and ‘man-whore’ just shows that the former is (as I said) almost exclusively used for women. Not always, but mostly.

And all of your examples had to do with sex

At the end of the day, ‘whore’ by definition is a full service sex worker. Those very people deem the term to be derogatory. To call someone a whore is mostly either;

a) to describe their occupation
b) to insult them

If sex workers are trying to change the way we use the word, who are we to argue? And like I said, a huge reason is because the term is degrading, dehumanizing and full of negative stigma. ‘Sex worker’ should be used as a replacement because it humanizes the sex worker.

“Whoring” of course refers to the occupation. Let’s say you use it as “4 more weeks of corporate whoring and I can afford that car!” ie; four more weeks of working for money , like a ‘whore’. Even if you use the term as Amal said, as someone who pretends to be loyal to you and your best interests, but actually doesn’t - that’s still using it as a negative descriptor. This is also problematic as this is often how women, especially sex workers, are negatively perceived.

My whole thing about that the phrase “whoring bitch” in the original post was;

a) used specifically with feminine pronouns (“ and you don’t think she’s a… ”)
b) used to describe her negatively; a slur

Again, I know he didn’t use it to deliberately be offensive or malicious, but I am just trying to raise awareness that yes, these days the word & term are seen as offensive and there are plenty of other words we can use in their place Language sure is funny and complex, but it’s these kind of distinctions that help us progress and move forward. Sex workers are helping us to be better people by not using dehumanizing language and I think that’s pretty great

Addendum : think of the word “slaves”. A lot of historians, teachers and educators, especially in the Black community no longer use that word but instead use “enslaved people” because it separates a person’s identity from his/her circumstance.

“Tranny” is another term people use lightly/jokingly but is derogatory and shouldn’t be used. Heck, even ‘prostitute’ is no longer being used!

Context matters…

[anon2520759]

and it was still contextually a bad phrase

[Atilla]

You’re beating a dead horse! I’m convinced!

[anon2520759]

haha sorry, my bad

[anon3825968]

@amal

Language is funny.

What’s not funny is people who attempt to rewrite it to “frame people’s way of thinking”. It’s not a new trend among pretentious self-righteous SJWs - it’s called Newspeak in 1984 - but it’s gotten out of hand lately.

There are numerous accepted tems, that come from despicable, offensive, insulting and entirely forgettable concepts, that have come to mean something else entirely. And SJWs are busy trying to shame everybody into not using them anymore, which makes absolutely no sense.

Here for example: I’m gonna write a perfectly innocuous sentence, and Ithritin will blow her top off:

“No sense in beating a dead horse: I’m gonna rewrite the driver so that the master controller whitelists the right slaves and mutes the responses from all the others.”

Get a load of this: in a few words, I managed to insult PETA, taxi drivers, black people, KKK members and those with a speech impairement. Amazing eh?

Or not, if you’re a not a SJW.

@amal

Whoring / whore - hurled as an insult, to me is simply means someone or something who pretends to be loyal to you, has your best interest in mind, etc.

Of course it does:

—8<—8<----8<—
whore ( third-person singular simple present whores , present participle whoring , simple past and past participle whored )
[…]
4. (transitive, vulgar) To promote shamelessly.
Did you see him on that chat show, whoring his new book?
—8<—8<—8<—

It takes a particularly disingenious SJW on the war path to interpret it any other way.

Oh damn! I said war path: did I insult Indians?

Oh sorry, I meant Native Americans.

[anon2520759]

@anon3825968

Ithritin will blow his top off

Well I’m not a male, for one. Secondly, none of anything I said makes me an SJW. I’m just trying not to be an asshole in my day to day interactions with other people while raising awareness that some things aren’t okay to say.

And the definition of “to promote shamelessly” comes from the fact that doing so is ‘shamelessly selling yourself’ like a whore.

As for the rest, I mean … come on. A troll if there ever was one.

[anon3825968]

@anon2520759

I’m just trying not to be an asshole

You’re trying too hard.

Look, if I had called a prostitute a whore and you had pointed it out, I’d be all over the forum to apologize. But here it’s just ridiculous.

For the nth time, I respect everyone and mean nobody no harm. But English is what it is, and it has its share of historical baggage. All the other languages in the world do too. I’m not going to stop using expressions that contain those words that hurt you so much: it’s what makes it rich and vibrant. Stop getting your pants in a knot over the innocent use of those loaded words.

[Satur9]

@anon2520759

I’m just trying not to be an asshole in my day to day interactions with other people while raising awareness that some things aren’t okay to say.

Read out of context a phrase like “some things aren’t okay to say” could be interpreted as infringing on someone’s right to say whatever they want. I think it’s much more important to highlight the “raising awareness” aspect.

If someone tells you something you said was hurtful, you can apologize or not respond and there would be no negative reflection upon you. If you do it again after gaining the knowledge that it was hurtful, you’re committing a transgression against that person and they would be within their rights to dislike you for it. It’s all about intent.

[anon2520759]

Mmm, but I kinda think some things aren’t okay to say. Like sure, someone can say whatever they like if they don’t care about the meanings and consequences, but for eg; saying “That’s retarded” or “That’s so autistic” even without intending to be offensive, is never ok. Social dynamics and whatnot.

Idk, I didn’t think this would blow up the way it did, but I guess there are plenty of people in the world who are just gonna say what they want, so yeah… trying to raise awareness!

[anon3825968]

@anon2520759

Idk, I didn’t think this would blow up the way it did, but I guess there are plenty of people in the world who are just gonna say what they want, so yeah… trying to raise awareness!

Well here’s the thing: there are words that the majority of people find offensive. Like the N-word. 99% of the English-speaking world thinks it’s not okay to use the N-word - and lo, I’m not even using it here myself. But when most everybody isn’t offended by something and a small minority is, quite frankly I feel under no obligation to please the minority.

As an example: I think cars are a terrible thing. They pollute, they change the climate, they promote a sedentary lifestyle. I reckon car shows on TV should be banned, because they make cars look cool or exciting, and people should generally not talk so much about them, because the last thing the world needs is more cars.

Do I go around telling people to stop using the word car to raise awareness? No.
Will you stop using the word car if I tell you it’s not cool to promote cars? No.
Will you be slightly annoyed if I butt in on an interesting conversation to tell you using the word car is not cool? Yes.

[Pilgrimsmaster]

INTENT and CONTEXT

[anon2520759]

[Eriequiet]

Damn… guns and religion and politics… no biggy all walks of life ok

But simple discussion on words, and it’s starting to get heated

Lol you’re a funny bunch dangerous things