Have you heard the joke about the to Finnish guys:
-How was your summer?
-I donât remember, dude. I was drunk both days!
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There ainât nothing wrong with being a whore, but using the term as a derogatory isnât cool in any context.
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Iâm going to assume youâre joking here. SurelyâŠ
No, I am 100% serious. The term âwhoring bitchâ is pretty fucked up. I donât care if youâre using it to describe an Amazon Alexa, or a human being. Thatâs some fucked up language.
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sigh
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Depends on what kind of philosophy youâre talking about. What most people (including myself, most of the time) call philosophy is just thinking about stuff and discussing things, without any scientific background to this discussion itself. But if you take âseriousâ philosophy, there is a lot of science to it. The way an argument is made correctly, and all that - Iâm not too deep into it, but a girl I know studies this stuff, and Iâm really surprised how much mathematics and other ârealâ science is in philosophy. Donât underestimate that 
Additionally, logic is a big part in both philosophy and mathematics, and if done right, philosophy can definitely help solve problems we currently discuss here.
This is totally true. Still, I am very sure that Rosco didnât mean to discriminate against sexworkers. And while it is true that we all might need to have a close look at our own language, I think it is equally important how this critique is brought on. Otherwise, it will just end discussions that were actually civil and interesting, because of something someone sometime said that was maybe not thought through.
edit: just something Iâm not sure about - if you call someone a âwhoring bitchâ who actually is a whoring bitch - is that a problem, too? I mean, I can call an asshole an asshole, so why is that (rude, but) okay, but not if Iâd call a whoring bitch a whoring bitch?
calling anyone a whore is generally pretty frowned upon and is considered derogatory. a sex worker can call themselves a whore, but it should otherwise not be used to describe someone unless explicitly stated otherwise.
itâs something I canât gloss over, and need to call out/raise awareness of, thatâs all, regardless of who says it. language is how we communicate and itâs good to be aware of these things 
EDIT: donât want to derail the thread. just wanted to flag that. carry on.
Iâve got a little problem with that, I think itâs a bit hypocritical. Itâs similar to how black people can call themselves black (and me white) without any problem, but I have to use stupid made-up terms like whatever seems politically correct nowadays, even if the context and all that clearly show that Iâm pretty left politically. The term âsex workerâ is relatively new (at least in casual language), and it still feels strange, and I think thatâs one of the problems many people have with PC-terms. Language is how we communicate, yes, but more often than not language starts to feel like a mine field where you can always stomp on someoneâs toes, even if it was totally clear that nothing was said to hurt someone. If we had a discussion about sex workers here and Rosco had described one of them as a whoring bitch, Iâd totally understand the anger. But the way it is now, it feels more like pointing at someone for stepping one step away from the safe path.
I understand the point of it and all, and I can clearly see that this is a very important topic for you, and I agree that it is important to be aware of such things. But still, this behaviour might hurt others as well, for they constantly feel misunderstood even though they meant no harm.
Happy to discuss this in another thread or via DMs - donât wanna derail this thread too much
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Rosco you donât want political correctness to get in the way of your ability to hold a conversation, so when it comes up you storm off? Nothing about what ithritin said required you to end the conversation there. They have just as much a right to say what they want as you do. You are not being censured, but you are censuring others by being unable to continue when others say things you donât like. Calm down.
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SJWs irritate the shit out of me. So Iâd better sign off before I become nasty.
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On that, good night all.
Feel similar, sometimes, but since I like to understand things that irritate me, I like to discuss such things Maybe we should make a derailing-sjw-thread, just to understand things and maybe make the other point of view clear as well? Without drama, without personal attacking, with a lot of valium perhaps?
I saw the edit⊠shall we carry on here?
A few things in here that I wanted to kinda address, and please know that Iâm not angrily swearing and yelling at you Legit discussing this but itâs something worth talking about.
I mean, black is the correct and accepted term. You wouldnât call a black person the âNâ word right? It was used as a derogatory word, and black people reclaimed it as a word only they can use. Itâs the same thing with sex workers. Whore has a lot of stigma attached to it and is pretty much only ever used as a negative descriptor. Sex workers are simply reclaiming it.
Yep, true, but there is damn good reason for this. One of the biggest reasons is because it forces people to frame sex workers as legitimate workers, aka âsex work is workâ.
I can understand that, but at the same time itâs someone saying âHey, you said something that was hurtful and/or offensive.â and the other person saying âSo what?â. Perhaps itâs a good time to step back and ask how or why that thing was offensive and learn about it. You may still not agree with it, but at least listening, learning and then choosing to discontinue/continue saying it is the nicer thing to do eh?
Itâs not so much about being politically correct all the damn time, itâs more about certain words and terms and the meaning behind those words. Whore has a tonne of negative stigma attached to it and is inherently violent towards sex workers as well as women, because itâs almost exclusively used to describe women. So I mean, throwing it together as âwhoring bitchâ is a pretty inflammatory term.
I know Rosco wasnât using it in that sense and he wasnât attacking anyone, I just wanted to point out that the term used in any context, is kinda wrong. I was more calling it out like âHey, thatâs not cool.â as I would if my friends had said it while hanging out and chatting with them. It also doesnât take much to ask âHow/why is that offensive?â and learn about it than to get all pissed off that you canât say what you want to. It helps you grow as a person.
Did I say things like âthatâs gayâ and make misogynistic jokes as a kid? I sure did. But then I learned why those kinds of things are offensive and unacceptable, and I changed my language and behaviour.
And again, all I said was;
I wasnât meaning to open a whole can oâ worms and Iâm happy to discuss it everyone in a civil manner 
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Thanks a lot for explaining - thatâs what I was kinda hoping for, and thanks Pilgrim for moving it here for further discussion We already showed that we can handle hot topics here, letâs keep it that way
Okay, thatâs great - in Germany, saying âblackâ is really frowned upon, and Iâm starting to lose words I can safely use hereâŠ^^ Iâd never use the N-word, of course, for that is clearly racist. But saying black is just describing what I see, itâs not saying that black is any better or worse than white or whatever. And still, in Germany, thatâs kinda ânot allowedâ - you might say âpeople of colorâ, okay, but âcolored peopleâ is wrong again - thatâs why I feel like walking in a mine field sometimes. Iâve got family in Mosambique, and the people there donât give a f* what words you useâŠ
The equivalent to âwhoreâ in Germany is not as derogative, I think - itâs used in a neutral or negative way, depending on the situation.
Okay, I didnât know that one - thatâs a good reason to use that term. For me it was always obvious that this is some pretty hard work (and Iâm glad there are ladys and gentlemen doing that job!), but it might not be that obvious to others, so maybe a good idea to remind them.
This would indeed be the best reaction, but the thing that actually happens is - person a says something, person b says âhey, thatâs not so niceâ and person a rolls his eyes and thinks âhell, another of those over-sensitive SJWsâ. I sometimes catch myself rolling my eyes, yes⊠because sometimes people pick on every tiny thing they can find (not talking about you here, but I guess you know the situation), and you get the feeling that you canât say anything the way it was formed in your head, you have to rethink everything before saying it, and thatâs just - exhausting. Additionally, especially in Germany, things tend to go a bit too far - currently, they are retexting childrenâs songs and rewriting childrenâs books to be more politically correct, and things that nobody ever thought of as racist or sexist or whatever are suddenly politicised. Thatâs not a good thing, and therefore people are over-sensitive to over-sensitive people, in a way 
Yeah, thereâs definitely subtle differences in words that can have very different meanings 
Kinda like in English, to refer to the collective as âBlacksâ is pretty bad, rather than saying âBlack peopleâ. Just like they kept saying in the US Presidential debate, but whoâs surprised there? 
And there are distinctions between Black and African-American.
I used to get annoyed with politically-correct people too, but there are usually pretty good arguments and reasons for things, and most of them stem from places of oppression and such. I think learning to have more empathy definitely helped me there
And folks here in Canada kicked up a HUGE stink about them changing a single word in the Canadian anthem, from;
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
to
True patriot love in all of us command.
People were screaming how PC SJWâs were ruining the sacred anthem, when really it just became more inclusive. I think if anything it just shows that we are learning and progressing as a culture and realising that a lot of language we use as default seems harmless, but if you really stop and think⊠sometimes there really is a lot of pain and trauma attached to things for a great number of people. Well that, and people generally donât like change or to be told theyâre wrong.
I mean, look at the shitstorm pronouns have unleashed on the world. Such a simple little thing, but it matters to a whole lotta people
Both of that - and thatâs one of the reasons whyâŠ
âŠthis happened
I am totally okay with each person on earth being addressed the way he /she / it wants, no problem - but I need to have a fair chance to be right 
If I meet someone for the first time (the example I know about was a waitress, serving a customer), I take a look at the person and address him / her the way I think is right - if it looks like a lady, I might address the person as âshe / herâ. If thatâs wrong and Iâm told that, okay, Iâll address her any way she wants, fine with that. But in that case, the waitress was verbally attacked for being intolerant and whatever, though she couldnât know how her customer wanted to be addressed, and thatâs not fair I think.
And to be honest, it still feels strange to write about, for example, Lepht Anonym as âitâ. It states online that it wants it that way, but when I grew up, it was extremely derogatory to refer to a human being as âitâ. So it feels wrong to do so, even if it wants it
Language is funny.
Things are constantly in flux and explaining oneâs self occasionally becomes necessary. For example⊠to me âwhoring bitchâ has a breakdown which has nothing to do with sexworkâŠ
Whoring / whore - hurled as an insult, to me is simply means someone or something who pretends to be loyal to you, has your best interest in mind, etc. but in fact is working for someone elseâs interest⊠possibly their own⊠possibly in collaboration with a 3rd party. It has nothing to do (in my mind) with the profession of getting paid for performing sexual acts⊠but one could see how this meaning has been loosely derived from such a business arrangement.
Bitch - adds emphasis
So to me, Roscoâs use of the term whoring bitch conveyed to me that alexa is the spying bitch @Coma described her as and adds a financial element to it (selling my data, betraying my privacy, etc.)
It is a nebulous situation for sure, but surly not nefarious.
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Thatâs why we should talk about it with humour and no anger
Thatâs why I was defending Rosco a bit as well - we had our fair amount of hot discussion about other topics, but this here wasnât in the context of women, sex workers or anything similar, and I understood it in the same way you did. Itâs still a bit hard for me to understand that a word can be a taboo in every context, and Iâm not sure if I agree on that. Maybe I take language as a whole too lightheartedly - I can get angry over words, too, but for me, it really depends on the context.